Transcript for "General discussion"
Speaker: Hesbon Wandabura & Sindani Ben
Aah basakhulu nechao lundi.
Aah, elders, I have come back again.
Esese kamasina kange bananga bali.
My name is.
Hesbon Wandabwa.
Hesbon Wandabwa.
Wasumba.
Son of Sumba.
Esese.
I.
Omusombi.
I come from Basombi clan.
We Musikoma.
From Musikoma.
Ndi ano nende omukuka omukolyo owasiange.
I am here with my fellow old man.
Anyala kababolela lisina liewe.
He can tell you his name.
Mala khube nakhuchichakana.
Then we proceed.
Sindani: Orio muno omukuka, maya unange oli Ngulukhi Sindani Ben.
Sindani: Thank you elder, you may call me Ngulukhi Sindani Ben.
Nechile ano khubela elomo yebamasaba, omukuka kamamo lundi.
I have come here because of a conversation about the Bamasaba people, say something elder.
Hesbon: Asandi.
Hesbon: Thank you.
Nee khukhacha chimbilo lukali tawe.
Before we proceed fast.
Sima nandi wase muskhulu wasiange Sindani.
I wish that my fellow elder Sindani.
Onyala wakhubolela.
You may tell us.
Obolele basakhulu basiefwe bano sina nisio khokhucha khukachulakho sinyoa.
You should tell our fellow elders the first thing we are going to talk about.
Sindani: Orio muno omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Mundalo, yaluno ya nyongesa yino.
On this Saturday.
Nekhuli bamasaba khwakanane ano khubela elomo yefwe.
As the Bamasaba, we have met here because of our word.
Khucha khukachula khubela kamakali busa.
We are going to talk about a lot of things.
Khucha khukachula khumakhuwa kebamasaba kano.
We are going to talk about the Bamasaba matters.
Khucha khulomaloma kamakali niko omumasaba amanyile.
We are going to talk a lot that the Mumasaba knows.
Khwenya khweyike omumasaba yuno khumanye.
We want to learn and know about the Mumasaba.
Nali wembanga kembanga mienya si?
The kind of songs he was singing if he sung.
Aah omukuka khumasina bananga bali Ngulukhi Sindani.
Elder, my name is Ngulukhi Sindani.
Nja khukachula khumubukusu.
I am going to talk about a Bukusu.
Omubukusu yuno ali omumasaba.
A Bukusu is a Mumasaba.
Omubukusu yuno ali omundu mulala munda ya Masaba.
A Bukusu is one person from the Masaba children.
Nono khucha khukachula khumubukusu.
So we are going to talk about a Bukusu.
Khwenya khumanye omubukusu yuno kembanga mienya si?
We want to know the songs the Bukusu used to sing.
Ne kimienya kino kiaba nesifune.
And the meaning these songs had.
Nekamasina kano.
And these names.
Bamulanganga bario.
Did they call him/her that.
Balangananga kamasina kano.
They called each other these names.
Khubela si?
Why?
Khwenya khumanye kamenako.
We want to know that.
Bele kasubila si?
What did they believe?
Mumoyo kwewe amanyile wele mungila si?
How did they know God in their hearts?
Ali nende chilomo nicho akambilanga babana narumikhila.
They have the kind of teachings they used to teach the children.
Kimienya namwe chilomo ndala si?
Songs or which stories.
Ali namima si?
What character did they have?
Sina nisio kakania?
What did they reject.
Kosi kosi ako omukuka Sumba.
All that elder Sumba.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Kachulakhomo lundi wesi.
Sindani: Say something also.
Hesbon: Asandi.
Hesbon: Thank you.
Omubukusu yuno.
This Bukusu.
Kaba nende ebindu nibio.
They had things which.
Bamukania bali okhakhola ta.
They warned him/her not to do.
Sisindu balii.
Something like.
Omubukusu yuno kaloma ali nokhola sindu fulani.
This Bukusu said if you do a certain thing.
Sindu fulani kene sikhukholekhekho.
A certain thing will happen to you.
Nono khwenya wase musakhulu Sindani.
So we want that, elder Sindani.
Khulole luswa luno.
We look at this curse.
Luswa khuba papa.
A curse on fathers.
Luswa khubamayi.
A curse on mothers.
Nende luswa khubana.
And a curse to the children.
Neluliyo nende luswa khubasakhulu.
There is a curse on the old men.
Nende balosi.
And old women.
Nono wase.
So, mate.
Nakhurakikha mbolelekho luswa lwebasecha luno.
As we begin, tell me about the curse on men.
Sindani: Orio muno omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Omusecha yuno kaba neluswa sina?
Hesbon: What curse did this man have?
Sindani: Orio muno omukuka khekhubolele khubwichufu.
Sindani: Thank you elder, let me tell you in details.
Hesbon: Mmhh.
Hesbon: Mmhh.
Sindani: Chino chili chinganio nicho khwakanianga babana.
Sindani: These are warnings we used to warn the children.
Bakhasi.
Women.
Babana nebasakhulu.
Children and old men.
Kaliyo kamakhuwa niko khwakania.
There are matters we used to warn about.
Nekhwaba nende.
We had.
Sisiakila nakhungilila.
The reason we warned.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Khukhingilila khuno.
Sindani: This warning.
Bele nga omukuka alomile saluli luswa lwong'ene lukhwongakho ta.
As the elder said, it was not only a curse that would follow you.
Bele kaliyo kamakali kanyala kakhunyola.
There were many other things that will have caught up with you.
Nekali mbo olekelesia kamakhuwa kano.
If you ignored these matters.
Hesbon: Kabisa kabisa mzee.
Hesbon: That is correct elder.
Sindani: Bele atayi ao khwakani khuli.
Sindani: Long ago, we forbade that.
Omukhasi oli sitela.
A woman who was expectant.
Omukhasi oli asiro.
A pregnant woman.
Akhalia kamaki tawe.
She was not supposed to eat eggs.
Khwaba nende sifune.
We had a reason.
Omukuka kamakhomo lundi.
Elder, say something again.
Hesbon: Asandi.
Hesbon: Thank you.
Nesifune sino.
This reason.
Sesili bali sianjile busa likoloba ta sifune sino.
It did not just start yesterday, this reason.
Omukhasi oli asiro akhalia kamaki ta khubela si?
Why would a pregnant woman not eat eggs?
Omukhasi oli asiro nalia kamaki.
If a pregnant woman eats eggs.
Alaba oli kerusiakho.
When she will deliver.
Omwana niye alerusiakho yuno chilomo chilamunania.
The child she gives birth to will have difficulties in speaking.
Omwana alaba amenye kimiaka kimikali.
The child will live for many years.
Mala.
Then.
Ekhurambula chilomo bube butinyu.
It will be difficult for the child to speak.
Sikila mawe kakholanga ariena.
Because the mother did what?
Kalichanga kamaki.
She ate the eggs.
Khwecha sisindu sisindi baloma bali.
They said something else that.
Emondo mungokho.
The gizard in the chicken.
Omukhasi akhalia emondo ta.
A woman should not eat the gizard.
Wabone, nemondo yino.
You see, and this gizard.
Nisio sindu sibofu sana mungokho.
It is a valuable thing in a chicken.
Mubabukusu.
In Bukusus.
Nomanye basecha.
You know men.
Ata wele wakhungaki kaloma ali omusecha niyo etaa ya munju.
Even God above said the husband is the light of the house.
Nono emondo yino omusecha nalia eng'eneyi yekesiena eli omusecha mwenoyu ali nende lilria omukhasi wewe kamurire.
So it shows that the husband is the head of the house and is respected by the wife when he eats the gizard.
Ne ewewe sayi wase Sindani olecha mungo mwoo munju mwoo nende bakeni.
My mate Sindani, if you now come to your house with visitors.
Wambulile musakhulu?
Have you heard me elder.
Sindani: Orio omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Olecha nebakeni, omukhasi woo komolela bakeni emondo.
Hesbon: When you come with visistors and your wife serves the gizard to the visitors.
Aba kakholile ariena?
What will she have done?
Aba ali nesifune.
She will have a reason.
Mala.
Then.
Musibukusu, lienelio aba kakholile likoso libofu sana.
In Bukusu, she will have done a big mistake.
Nelikoso nilio akholile aba kakholile ariena, kalekelesie omusecha wewe.
The mistake she will have done is disrespecting her husband.
Mala musimachamacha kamakhuwa kenako bakhola bariena?
From the beginning, they used to do what with such matters?
Bakania.
They forbade.
Eeh wase Sindani necha naulilakho lundi kamakhuwa akandi.
Sindani mate, I heard other matters.
Balii.
That.
Munju.
In the house.
Omusecha khusitanda akonela khwisisi.
The husband should sleep on the wall side of the bed.
Namwe akonela emuliango, mbolelekho abwenao khubone.
Or he sleeps at the door side? Tell me on that.
Sindani: Omukuka kamenako kambirire.
Sindani: Elder, that one has surpassed me.
Bele khamanya ta, ese nealishianga busa osiosi niye nyolile.
I did not know about that, I sleep anywhere I find.
Hesbon: Ooh ooh hahaha. Sindani: Omukuka kamakhomo lundi.
Hesbon: Oh oh hahaha. Sindani: Elder say something again.
Sindani: Ata omundu kapa lusimu ano akhareba ali kafwananga kariena, bali lundi nanu wikalao kumuliango. Hesbon: Abwenao.
Sindani; Someone is calling here asking how it goes and who is supposed to close the door. Hesbon: On that.
Sindani: Nanu wikulao, omukuka kamakhomo lundi.
Sindani: Who opens, elder say something again.
Hesbon: Omundu munju ewewe nga omusecha.
Hesbon: You as the husband in the house.
Omukhasi akonela siesisi.
The wife sleeps on the wall side.
Hesbon: Taa? Sindani: Eeh.
Hesbon: Righ? Sindani: Yes.
Hesbon: Ne omusecha wakonela wae?
Hesbon: The husband should sleep from?
Wakonela emuliango.
You sleep from the door's side.
Sikila ewewe niwe kumurwe kwemunju.
Because you are the head of the house.
Ne olabona okonela khwisisi aba ewe, khane olomile oli bisani sani namwe.
If you see yourself sleeping for the wall side, you said the weak men or?
Sindani: Aba ewe khasanisani. Hesbon: Ewe aba khasanisani khakhamanyile sindu nisio khakhola munju mwakho ta.
Sindani: You will be a weak man. Hesbon: You will be a weak man who does not know what to do in their home.
Hesbon: Lakini oli busa omusani, khane olomile oli omusani nanu?
Hesbon: But if you are a man, you said what kind of a man?
Sindani: Omusani burwa omwene. Hesbon: Noli omusani burwa omwene.
Sindani: A very harsh (berry man) Hesbon: If you are a very harsh man.
Hesbon: Ewewe okonela emuliango.
Hesbon: You sleep at the door's side.
Sikila.
Because.
Hesbon: Oli namiinda, nomanyile bali namiinda atamba sinanu? Namiinda tamba likobi. Sindani: Orio kuka.
Hesbon: You are wealth and they say a wealth person has no what? No debt. Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Omundi yesi, oli furi khwinyokha wakati yosi yosi.
Hesbon: Any person is free to wake up any time.
Oli omulekhule khwinyokha wakati yosi yosi wikule kumuliango kwoo.
You are free to wake up any time and open your door.
Basiku nabecha.
When enemies come.
Olalekha omukhasi ache ang'ang'ane nebasiku namwe ewe niwe olacha khurusiana lukesi nebasiku.
Will you leave your wife to go and struggle with the enemies or you are the one who will go and struggle with the enemies.
Sindani: Omukuka omusecha wupana.
Sindani: Elder, it is a man who fights.
Hesbon: Baasi nono niko khubolela ndi ewe sokonel siesisi ta.
Hesbon: Alright, that is why I told yu that you are not supposed to sleep on the wall side.
Ewe okonela emuliango.
You sleep from the door's side.
Wabone.
You see.
Nebakhakonela emuliango.
When you sleep from the door's side.
Sikila ewewe niwe otilanga eranga.
It is because you are the one who holds the weapon.
Ewewe niwe.
You are the one.
Omanyile.
Who knows.
Nga chimbwa nachisama enje.
How the dogs bark outside.
Nachimbwa nachisama omanyile chimbwa nachisama enje chino.
As the dogs bark dogs, you know when dogs bark outside.
Chilikho chisamila omundu mulala sina.
What kind of a person are they barking at.
Chiliyo manye omusuku nabira enje embwa yino isamanga mungila ekindi.
When an enemy passes outside, this dog barks in a way.
Eyekesia embo sibala siabilile.
That shows the world is on fire.
Ne embwa yino elabona embwa busa yasie enje eyi ewe paka omanye nga omusecha oli aah embwa yino yasama okwo kubwa busa.
When the dog sees a fellow dog, as a man you will know that it is just a dog from how it barks.
Hesbon: Wabone musakhulu Sindani. Sindani: Orio omukuka.
Hesbon: Have you seen that elder Sindani. Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Nono.
Hesbon: So.
Eli.
It is.
Kumulukha kumubofu omusecha khukona siesisi.
A big deal for a man to sleep on the wall side.
Sindani: Omukuka lomakho lundi, bali omukhasi salia engokho ta?
Sindani: Elder explain it again that a woman is not supposed to eat chicken.
Hesbon: Omukhasi.
Hesbon: A woman.
Khulia engokho ali engokho.
She can eat the chicken.
Lakini emondo sakhola arie.
But about the gizard, she doesn't do what?
Sindani: Seeitilakho ta. Hesbon:Seetila khumondo, eng'eneyi ya papa welukoba.
Sindani: She doesn't touch it. Hesbon: She doesn't touch the gizard because it belongs to the homestead father.
Hesbon: Nee.
Hesbon: And.
Omukhasi, olabona omukhasi olia engokho lukali lukali sekali lundi omukhasi yuno yenyekhana bali alie busa engokho lunoo.
If you see a woman eating chicken regulary, a woman is not supposed to eat chicken regulary.
Muchuli tawe, olabona nono omukhasi olia engokho lukali.
Not tomorrow, if you see a woman who eats the chicken regulary.
Aba omukhasi mwenoyu ali nekumutolio.
That woman will be greedy.
Ne omukhasi wekumutolio.
And a greedy woman.
Sarera enganga mungo ta.
She doesn't bring value at home.
Sindani: Nomukuka omukhasi kacha eluchi ekoloba akhola arie?
Sindani: Elder, what happens when the woman goes to fetch water in the evening?
Hesbon: Efwefwe nganakhumanyile musibukusu, omukhasi nacha eluchi akoloba, kiliyo.
Hesbon: As we know in Bukusu, when a woman goes to fetch water in the evening, there are.
Kimindu nikio anyala kakanana nakio.
Weird things she can meet.
Sindani: Kimiwele mbi.
Sindani: The bad gods.
Hesbon: Kimiwele mbi.
Hesbon: The bad gods.
Nekimiwele mbi kino.
These bad gods.
Hesbon: Omukhasi alakanana nende kuwele mbi, areranga kumutawano wae? Mungo. Sindani: Mungo mwewe.
Hesbon: When a woman meets with a bad god, she bring conflicts where? At home. Sindani: At her home.
Hesbon: Omukhasi chilola chisa likhumi nandwela.
Hesbon: For the woman when it gets to 6PM.
Aba omukhasi yenakhana ache muluchi ta.
The woman is not supposed to go to the river.
Wele kie muluchi kiosi kilimo.
The water gods are also there.
Ne omanye balo khwalomanga khuri.
You know we used to say this.
Khwekayilanga sindu.
We prevented something.
Siliyo nsindu nisio khwekayilanga nga babukusu.
There was a thing we prevented like Bukusus.
Omukhasi yuno nacha ario ekewa.
When this woman goes to the grazeland.
Chisa chakoloba.
In the evening.
Kiliyo kimisecha milala, somanyile kamakhuwa kebakhasi kosi kaliyo omukhasi mbo.
There are some men, you know things to do with women.
Sindani: Ngamanyile omukuka. Hesbon: Mmh omukhasi, kamakhuwa kebakhasi balala sabaelekewa bulayi ta.
Sindani: I know it elder. Hesbon: Some women cannot be understood.
Sindani: Omuka nakhuelewile. Hesbon: Anyala khuba khane ario ali nende.
Sindani: Elder I understand you. Hesbon: She may be that way and have.
Hesbon: Kinamiinda kiewe enje eyi.
Hesbon: Her own gods out there.
Both: Kimwerungakho. Hesbon: Nono akhubolela ali mzee.
Both: That hang on her. Hesbon: So she will tell you, "husband"
Hesbon: Ese nalola emechi.
Hesbon:"I am going to the river"
Khane sakhalola emechi ta.
Yet she will not be going to the river.
Ali namakhuwa kewe niko khacha khukhola.
She has her own things to go and do.
Sindani: Orioo omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Asanti.
Hesbon: Thank you.
Khwakhecha khwabona.
We have come to see.
Sindani: Ne omukuka bali omukhasi oli mumwesi sacha mumukunda neabailia khubela si?
SindanI: Elder, why do they say a woman on her periods is not allowed to go the farm while they are planting?
Hesbon: Sifuki esiesio.
Hesbon: That blood.
Nisio aba nakhobokha.
That she will be shedding.
Nekakhacha mumukunda.
When she goes to the farm.
Sindani: Chinyenyi chomaa?
Sindani: Does the vegetables dry?
Hesbon: Chinyenyi choma.
Hesbon: The vegetables dry.
Nacha mumukunda nasifuki esiesio.
When she goes to the farm while on her periods.
Bimelwa bino kamaindi koma.
These plants like maize dry.
Nacha mumukunda nasifuki esiesio.
When she goes to the farm while on her periods.
Chimbande chikhola chirie, chiniala.
The nuts will shade off.
Nacha mumukunda nasifuki esiesio.
When she goes to the farm while on her periods.
Chinjuku sachama tawe.
The groundnuts doesn't grow.
Bamone nono musakhulu Sindani.
You see that elder Sindani.
Sindani: Nomukuka, bakhasi bano banyala bayaba eng'ani?
Sindani: Elder, can these women dig a grave?
Hesbon: Tawe.
Hesbon: No.
Efwefwe musibukusu, bakhasi sabayaba eng'ani ta.
Us in Bukusu, women are not allowed to dig the grave.
Nekhulomanga khuli ese bakhasi sabayaba eng'ani ta sikila khuli nende sifune.
We have a reason we say women are not allowed to dig the grave.
Omukhasi ali nende sisa sibofu.
A woman has a lot of remorse.
Nesisa siomukhasi sili paka mumoyo.
A woman's remorse is upto the heart.
Nekumoyo kuno.
And this heart.
Nikwo.
It is.
Kubolela omundu nisio akhola khubise fulani.
It tells someone what to do at a given time.
Nono omukhasi yuno ali nesisa, kumoyo kulaba nesisa.
So this woman is remorseful, when the heart is remorseful.
Kumubili kutamba kamani.
The body lacks the energy.
Salinga alayaba eng'ani eyo ta.
She will no manage to dig the grave.
Sindani: Anyala kakeleka eng'ani?
Sindani: Can she measure the grave?
Hesbon: Sanyala kakeleka eng'ani ta.
Hesbon: She cannot measure the grave.
Sikila khumanyile.
Because we know.
Ata wele omwene kaloma ali omukhasi alaba asi wa nanu?
Even God Himself said a woman will be under who?
Both: Womusecha.
Both: The man.
Hesbon: Nolabona omukhasi kanja khukeleka eng'ani.
Hesbon: If you see a woman start to measure the grave.
Ndi aba omukhasi kanjile khukhaya omusecha.
The woman will have started to overpower the man.
Both: Aba omusecha mungo omwo salimo ta.
Both: There will be no man in that home.
Hesbon: Wabone.
Hesbon: You see.
Sindani: Nabone omukuka.
Sindani: I have seen it elder.
Hesbon: Nono abwenao omukhasi sayaba eng'ani ta.
Hesbon: On that, the woman is not allowed to dig the grave.
Nelundi omukhasi.
Also, the woman.
Sapima eng'ani tawe.
Does not measure the grave.
Nee musakhulu Sindani nakhakhurebirekho.
Elder Sindani, I want to ask you.
Lola khwakhaba khukachula khumakhuwa kabasecha nebakhasi.
Look, we were talking about men and women matterrs.
Nebabana bano onyala wakhubolelakho sisindu nisio bakhenyekhana bakhole ta?
About these childre, can you tell us something they are not supposed to do.
Sindani: Omukuka babana bano bosi.
Sindani: Elder, these children also.
Bana bano bosi lundi kamakhuwa khane kaliyo busa kamakali.
There is more matters concerning these children.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Bana bano bali bosi sabakhoya balia emondo chana.
Sindani: These children are also not supposed to eat the gizard.
Hesbon: Sebakhoya balia emondo ta sikila emondo ya papa.
Hesbon: They are not supposed to eat the gizard because it belongs to their father.
Sindani: Emondio ya papa yeng'ene? Hesbon: Yee.
Sindani: The gizard is only for the father. Hesbon: Yes.
Hesbon: Yomusakhulu welukoba.
Hesbon: For the homestead father.
Kumurwe kwenju.
The head of the house.
Wabone abwenao.
You see that.
Sindani: Nomukuka khumanya omwana ali omundu wama miko sina?
Sindani: Elder, we know a child, a child is from which age?
Nekolela miko si?
To what age?
Hesbon: Eeh khukhwama mumwiko mulala.
Hesbon: Eeh from one year.
Paka khumiaka likhumi namunane.
To eighteen years.
Omwana alola likhumi na munane.
When the child gets to eighteen years.
Omwenoyu aba sali omwana tawe.
That will not be a child.
Omwenoyu aba kakhulile.
That will be an adult.
Nono khulaloma khubana.
So when we talk about children.
Khokhuloma khubana kimiaka likhumi nasaba.
We are talking about children who are seventeen years.
Sindani: Ne omukuka khurusiakho omwana, omwna anyala kekhala khwiyika?
Sindani: Other than the child, can the child seat on the ccoking stone.
Namwe omundu yesiyesi sakenyekhana kekhale khwiyika ta, newekhala khwiyika sina sikholekhe.
Or any other person is not supposed to seat on the cooking stone and what happens when you seat on the cooking stone?
Hesbon: Liika lieneli lia mayi.
Hesbon: The cooking stone belongs to mother.
Ewewe omusakhulu olacha wekhala khwiyika aba khotimania omukhasi woo.
When you seat to the cooking stone as a man, it means you are chasing away your wife.
Wabone.
You see.
Olekhala khwiika aba khotimania omukhasi woo.
When you seat on the cooking stone, you will be chasing your wife a way.
Nee omwana abechanga wa mayi nepapa.
The child belongs to mother and father.
Omwana olabona acha khwiyika, liika lino ewe olabona obeya omukhasi, omukhasi abechanga owoo nende.
When you see the child going to the cooking stone, when you marry the wife belongs to you and who?
Munju omwo mubechangamo bandu benga nemwanja lukoba mubechanga bandu benga?
How many people are you normally when you start a family.
Sindani: Bandu busa babili. Hesbon: Bandu babili, omukhasi nomu.. Sindani: Omusecha.
Sindani: Just to people elder. Hesbon: Two people, the wife and the? Sindani: The husband.
Hesbon: Nono omukhasi oyo nekanja khutekha.
Hesbon: So when that woman starts to cook.
Abele omwana oyo akhanyolekhana ta.
That child was not yet born.
Sindani: Omukuka sendaluwa ta okhaluwa ta sikhureba busa.
Sindani: Elder, don't get tired I am still going to ask you.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Khubasecha bano.
Sindani: On these men.
Sindani: Wandaye wange kaba omukhulu. Hesbon: Mmh
Sindani: If my brother is the oldest. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Esese omutiti mulonda.
Sindani: And I am his follower.
Hesbon: Kabisa.
Hesbon: True.
Sindani: Sina sikila.
Sindani: Why is it.
Ese nefwa niye akhela khumukhasi wange ta.
He is not allowed to inherit my wife when I die.
Hesbon: Omutiti.
Hesbon: The young one.
Sindani: Esese omukekhe.
Hesbon: I am the youngest.
Hesbon: Ooh.
Hesbon: Ooh.
Ewewe omukekhe.
You are the youngest.
Alafu wandayo woo oyo omukhulu ta?
And your brother is the oldest, right?
Sindani: Eeh Hesbon: Nono ewe yenyekhana, oli wakhaloma oli sakenyekhana kela khumukhasi woo ta namwe ewe wela khumukhasi wewe?
Sindani: Eeh. Hesbon: You have said he is not allowe to inherit your wife or you inheriting his wife.
Sindani: Sikila nakhenyekhana kela khumukhasi wange sikila sili si?
Sindani: What is the reason for him not to inherit my wife?
Sindani: Mala ese wandaye. Hesbon: Ewewe soli omwana omutiti naniye omukhulu.
Sindani: Yet I am the brother. Hesbon: Are you the youngest and he is the oldest?
Hesbon: Nono niye omukhulu oyoyo.
Hesbon: So him being the oldest.
Papa woo ararurao, papa woo bali kafwile.
When your father dies.
Wandayo omukhulu oyoyo niye obukulanga enafasi ya nanu?
You older brother is the one who the who's position?
Ya papa.
Of the father.
Na alabukula ario enafasi ya papa.
When he takes the father's place.
Papa.
Father.
Kela khumukhasi woo?
Can he inherit your wife?
Sindani: Sakelakho ta.
Sindani: He cannot.
Sindani: Sakelakho tawe.
Hesbon: He cannot inherit your wife.
Nono wandayo woo omukhulu mwenoyu papa woo niye.
So your elder brother is like your father.
Sekenyekhanya kela khumukhasi woo.
He is not supposed to inherit your wife.
Tawe.
No.
Wabone.
Do you see.
Sindani: Nabone omukuka.
Sindani: I have seen it elder.
Hesbon: Asandi.
Hesbon: Thank you.
Hesbon: Nowakhaba nerireba lilindi wareba nekhusi khumakhuwa ka kimisango kano. Sindani: Omukuka, kali busa kamakali ndatubiana tubian busa.
Hesbon: If you have another question you can ask when we are still on taboos. Sindani: Elder, they are many I will just mix.
Sindani: Nono.
Sindani: Nono.
Sikila lundi.
Because again.
Omundu.
A person.
Bali mayi woo omukhwe mayi masalao omurie bali nafwile socha wamubonakho ta.
That you are not supposed to go and see your mother in-law when she dies.
Socha wabonakho kumulambo okwo ta?
Don't you go and see the corpse?
Hesbon: Eeh balii musimachamacha.
Hesbon: From the beginning.
Mayi woo omukhwe nafwile.
When your mother in-law is dead.
Socha wabona kumulambo kwewe ta.
You are not supposed to go and see her dead body.
Nata solola busa nga khakhulanga, khuli sinanu?
Just see how we are calling it that.
Both: Mayi omurie.
Both: Mother in-law.
Hesbon: Sekali bali nakakhafwa.
Hesbon: It is not that when he dies.
Burie buno bwaweleo ta.
This respect has ended.
Kakhaba nafwile asili busa omurie woo niye.
Even if she is dead she is still your mother in-law.
Nono.
So.
Onyala wacha wabona.
You can go and see.
Sichula sia omurie?
Your mother in-laws nakedness.
Sindani: Omukuka sokheyebwe ololele sichula sio omurie ta.
Sindani: Elder, you are not supposed to see you mother in-laws nakedness.
Hesbon: Ta sobona sichula sio omurie ta.
Hesbon: You are not supposed to see your mother in-laws nakedness.
Sindani: Newaba omukhana wase nga nakonile aa anyala wecha wambona?
Sindani: Can my daughter in-law come and see me when I sleep there.
Hesbon: Omukhana woo saecha akhubona ta.
Hesbon: Your daughter in-law cannot come and see you.
Sikila omurie, ewe omurie.
Because you are the in-law.
Both: Omurie niye.
Both: She is the in-law.
Sindani: Nono omukuka kamalaka kano.
Sindani: So elder, these rules.
Nganjilila khukalolela.
As I continue to look at them.
Sobona oli kalakhuumisianga efwe babandu besisecha?
Don't you see it is punishing us the men.
Hesbon: Omanye kalikakhumisia mungila ndala.
Hesbon: It is punishing us in one way.
Lakini kalikho kakhulinda mungila ekindi.
But it is protecting us in another way.
Ne baliyo omanye.
And there are those you should know.
Basecha bakimiliuliu.
Greedy men.
Nekamalaka kano khwakarao ili.
We put there these rules so that.
Khulinde chinju cha babana befwe, ewewe.
We protect our childrens houses.
Omukhana yuno nakecha khukhubona nolwala.
When this girl comes to see you while you are sick.
Nekekhala simbi, omanye lelo mubalanga muli sina babandu bekhwama, khukhwama eyi.
When she seats close, nowadays you know, you call them people from.
Hesbon: Bandu bokhwama mumarambo kenje kano mubalanga muli nanu? Sindani: Bakharunda bano
Hesbon: What do you call people who come from abroad.? Sindani: The white people.
Hesbon: Bakharunda, omanye bakharunda bakhecha barerao kamakhuwa.
Hesbon: The white people, you know these white people came and brought some matters in place.
Barao chindengekhelwa chichindi chilikho chonaka.
They put rules that are destroying.
Sindani: Babana befwe.
Sindani: Our children.
Hesbon: Babana befwe besibukusu.
Our Bukusu children.
Obona busa.
You will just see.
Bali omwana omukhana.
That a girl child.
Kecha ali akhukhesia, akhukhesia abona.
She may come to greet you and see.
Lumalilisi nesiramare obona lundi akhunune emunwa eyi.
At the end you will see her kiss you.
Mala omwana akhulanga ali papa omukhwe.
And then call you father in-law.
Ebienebi.
Those ones.
Bilikho birera.
That is bringing.
Chingoba che babana befwe nachikhalama bulayi ta, mmh.
Our childrens homes not develop well.
Sikila.
Because.
Basecha bano.
These men.
Kamabanga kabwe kano kamalayi busa kakhola kali busa kamalayi.
Their feelings are still active.
Nee.
And.
Kanyala kakila kumutawano kwechao.
It can cause separation to come in.
Sindani: Omukuka kamalaka kano kakhaba nekali kesibukusu. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Elder, even if these rules were in Bukusu. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Omukuka kamalaka kano lubeka lulala.
Sindani: These rules on one side.
Kalinga kakhusitoelakho efwe babandu besisecha.
It is against us as men.
Omukuka nenya ololemo likhuwa lino.
Elder, elder I want you to anlyze this matter.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Papa womukhaye wange anyala kecha kakona ewange.
Sindani: My wife's father can come and sleep at my place.
Hesbon: Kabisa. Sindani: Nono omukuka nenyile khumanya.
Hesbon: True. Sindani: So elder, I wanted to know.
Sindani: Sikhingilila papa wange naye khukonakho munju mwange mala ese nise mwenye enju, mwene lukoba sina? Hesbon: Yaani.
Sindani: What prevents my father to sleep in my house yet I am the home owner? Hesbon: Therefore
Hesbon: Papa woo niye wakhurera khusibala khuno.
Hesbon: Your father is the one who brought you on this world.
Hesbon: Somayile orio? Sindani: Nebubi buli waena omukuka?
Hesbon: You know that? Sindani: And where is the problem elder?
Hesbon: Nemunju mwoo muno oli nende omukhana wewe. Sindani: Narekeresie omukuka.
Hesbon: And in this house of yours you have his daughter in-law. Sindani: I am listening elder.
Hesbon: Ne olaba nende omukahna wewe salinga kecha kakona munju muno ta.
Hesbon: When you have his daughter in-law, there is no way he can come and sleep in this house.
Yaani kamalaka kano karao ili khurusiao papa akhakhola ario kekomba.
These rules were put to prevent father from admiring.
Omukhana wewe tawe.
Not his daughter in-law.
Nokonile okonanga bukhuna.
When you are a sleep, you sleep naked.
Hesbon: Sokonanga bukhuna? Sindani: Ngonanga bukhuna omukuka.
Hesbon: Don't you sleep naked? Sindani: I sleep naked elder.
Hesbon: Omukhana wewe yesi sakona bukhuna? Sindani: Akona bukhuna omukuka.
Hesbon: Does the daughter in-law sleep naked? Sindani: She sleeps naked elder.
Hesbon: Papa nakona munju mwoo aba yesi selenyekhana akone bukhuna. Sindani: Yesi akona bukhuna.
Hesbon: When your father sleeps in your house, won't he also be supposed to sleep naked? Sindani: He will also sleep naked.
Hesbon: Akosina nono khukona kona khwenokhu khularera kimitawano.
Hesbon: There it is, so that sleeping is the one that will bring conflicts.
Seyenyekhana papa kabona sichula sia, omukhana wewe tawe.
The father is not to see his daughter in-laws nakedness.
Sindani: Nomukuka.
Sindani: Elder.
Mayi wange naye anyala kakona munju mwase?
Can my mother sleep in my house?
Hesbon: Mayi woo akona munju mwoo.
Hesbon: Your mother sleeps in your house.
Nekakila mayi woo niye wakhusala.
Because it is your mother who gave birth to you.
Wabone?
You see?
Sindani: Nabone omukuka.
Sindani: I have seen it elder.
Hesbon: Ewewe nende mayi woo.
Hesbon: You and your mother.
Alafu omukhana woo nende papa woo.
And your wife and your father.
Bienebi bili bindu bibili bikabukhana.
Those are two different things.
Papa woo.
Your father.
Ali.
He is.
Okhoya omanye oli papa woo.
You are supposed to know that your father.
Sali niye wakhusala ta.
He is not the one who gave birth to you.
Mayi woo niye wakhola arie?
It is your mother who did what?
Sindani: Niye wasala ese.
Sindani: Who gave birth to you.
Hesbon: Nesonyala.
Hesbon: And you cannot.
Hesbon: Ewewe sayi omusakhulu Sindani sonyala wengila mumuliango nikwo wakhola orie? Waruriramo ta. Sindani: Omukuka nakhuulile.
Hesbon: You elder Sindani, at the moment, you cannot get in from the door you came out of. Sindani: I have heard you elder.
Lakini.
But.
Hesbon: Papa woo anyala kengila mumuliango nikwo ewe okhola orie?
Hesbon: Your father can go through the door you are doing what?
Wingililangamo.
You are going through.
Hesbon: Sawabone. Sindani: Naulile omukuka.
Hesbon: Have you seen? Sindani: I have seen elder.
Hesbon: Nono oli busa omulekhule mayi khwicha khukona munju mwoo lakini.
Hesbon: So you are free for your mother to come to your house but.
Bulekhule sabulikhoo bwa papa khwicha khukona munju mwoo tawe.
There is no freedom for your father to come and sleep in your house.
Sindani: Orio muno omukuka kamakhuwa ako nga nama khukarekeresia kosi kabili.
Sindani: Thank you elder for the two matters I have listened to.
Kumoyo kuli khakuya mukari lakini nakhalolelela bulaayi.
I am burning inside my heart but I have looked keenly.
Nama khuba oli ndolelela bulayi kali nende sikila omukhale karao nende sikila.
When I looked closely, they have a meaning, an old person put in place with a reason.
Nama khulolela mbo ewewe omukhana woo, wabona omukhana woo nali busa bukhuna.
I have looked at it when you see you daughter in-law while naked.
Omukuka siosi siosi sinyala siekholekha.
Elder, anything could happen.
Hesbon: Yee akosi.
Hesbon: True.
Sindani: Lundi nama khwicha lundi nabona omukuka omukhwe.
Sindani: I came and realized the in-law.
Bakhwe balala.
Some in-laws.
Bakhwe balala omukuka.
Some in-laws elder.
Ata nomukhesia mukhono asimiukha.
Her hand will still be soft when you greet them.
Sindani: Kamiukha akhila omukhaye woo, omukuka kamebasio kamabi kechao. Hesbon : Akosi.
Sindani: She could be softer than your wife and you will develop lastfyll thoughts. Hesbon: There it is.
Sindani: Namwicha mwonaka liria omukuka, bulebe sabutumbukha. Hesbon: Kabisa.
Sindani: You will come are destroy the respect and dmage the relationship. Hesbon: True.
Hesbon: Bulebe butumbukha.
Hesbon: The relations is destroyed.
Sindani: Nono omukuka kamakhuwa ako nama khukalolelela.
Sindani: I looked at such matters elder.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Bana babukusu mukhoya mwakabona sakali kamalayi tawe nokalekeleshele bindu.
Sindani: The Bukusu children shouuld look at it becuse it is not good when you ignore them.
Bicha bicha lubeka.
They go on one side.
Hesbon: Ne omanyile oli luswa luno.
Hesbon: Do you know this curse.
Luliyo bali luswa lukhenene.
There is one referred to as a giant curse.
Omanyile oli luswa luno lwiranga?
Do you know this curse kills.
Sindani: Luswa luno omukuka baloma bali lwiranga mala salwiriranga abwene ta.
Sindani: This curse elder, they say it kills on the spot but it doesn't kill on the spot.
Sindani: Yita? Hesbon: Kabisa.
Sindni: Right? Hesbon: True.
Hesbon: Nenya umbolele luswa luno lwira luriena, wakhambolela salwirira abwene ta.
Hesbon: I want you tell me how this curse kills, you have said it does not kill on the spot.
Sindani: Omukuka aluno ari khulabonanga bandu bali omundu ali bandokile.
Sindani: Currently we are seeing people claim to be bewitched.
Omundu ali khane balakholanga barie.
Someone will say they are doing something to them.
Omundu khane ali, omwana.
Someone or a child.
Omwana, onyola omwana kalemale busa.
You may find a child with disabilty.
Omundu omwene obechanga busa omulayi onyola oli khofwa busa.
A good person you find yourself just dying.
Lifwa ata lia maraba likhali literefu ta.
A sudden death that is not good.
Omanye khufwa khuno khuli nende khufwa khwe.
You know this dying has a dying of.
Sindani: Khufwa khulayi nende khukhwa khubi. Hesbon: Khubi.
Sindani: Dying well and dying bad. Hesbon: Dying badly.
Sindani: Musakhulu busa nga khumenyile khuri nga niyo khwolele ano nakhwenya khwekulumunyila.
Sindani: Elder, as we have lived long to this point when we want to die.
Onyala ata wekhala khusisala wefwila.
You can even seat on the chair and die.
Hesbon: Wefwila busa kalaa mungila. Sindani: Lakini omukuka lifwa lia maraba wamwene wemike wamwene onywe kamalesi.
Hesbon: You can in a peaceful way. Sindani: But a bad death elder, you can hung yourself or drink poison.
Both: Namwe oche okwe mumechi.
Both: Or you go and drawn yourself.
Sindani: Omukuka lwonolu aba luswa luli kharwira.
Sindani: Elder, that will be a curse killing.
Hesbon: Kuka wakhaloma ao. Sindani: Bakuka nga ese.
Hesbon: Elder, you have said on that. Sindani: Elders like me.
Hesbon: Mala warera sindu silayi sana mumebasio sinanianga. Sindni: Oro omukuka.
Hesbon: You have brought something so good that troubles my thoughts. Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Baomanga bali omundu nakakhekhupa lifwa lia maraba.
Hesbon: They say when a person commits suicide.
Balii, khumuskha.
To burry him.
Basikha musilo.
They burry at night.
Kuka onyala wambolelakho abwenao khubela sina nebaloma bali basikha musilo.
Elder can you explain to me why they say they have to burry at night.
Sindani: Omukuka nga khusoma sitabu sie bakurisito sino.
Sindani: Elder, as we read the christian book.
Nololelela wele omwene nga khabolela omwana Abraham amuwa chikhabi.
When you look at how God Himself talks and blesses Abraham.
Kamubolela ali Abraham.
He told Abraham.
Olifwa lifwe lilayi.
You will die a good death.
Omukuka, omundu ofwile lifwa lia maraba.
Elder, a person who dies a bad death.
Ali omundu omwene wiyirire.
Is a person who had killed themselves.
Mala kiliyo kimiwele mbi kimusindikhilila.
And there are bad gods that lead them.
Sali omwene ta.
It is not themselves.
Sindani: Kiliyo kimusindikhilile. Hesbon: Kabisa.
Sindani: There are those who led them to death. Hesbon: True.
Sindani: Nono omukuka omundu ario.
Sindani: So elder, such a person.
Khumusikha silo.
We burry them at night.
Bakulo bamusikha.
It is the frenemies that burry them.
Khumusikha bwangu khuli khakhumwiakana sakuna lundi.
We burry them very fast to reject them.
Akobole lundi mulwibulo namwe mukholo yefwe ta omukuka.
For them not to come again to our family or clan.
Nabwila khukana khwenya busa.
And that is why we just want.
Barende bamusikhe ache ario akhakobola lundi omundu ukundi lundi weyira ta.
Those who are not relatives to burry them in order not to make another pesron to commit suicide.
Sienesi nisio sifune kuka.
That is the reason elder.
Hesbon: Asandi.
Hesbon: Thank you.
Sindani: Orio omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Nee.
Hesbon: And.
Omundu nee.
A person and.
Lifwa lia maraba lino omundu wakana kekwilile mumechi.
On this bad death, maybe a person had drowned themselves.
Babandu benyekhana bamurusiemo baba bakina nanu?
What kind of people are supposed to remove them?
Sindani: Omukuka.
Sindani: Elder.
Abundu bwenao.
On that issue.
Subila ndi omundu orusia omundu okwile mumechi.
I believe that the person who removes someone who has drawned themselves.
Ali busa omundu onyolekhana busa yesiyesi.
It is any available person.
Mala lukali khurumikhilanga bandu bakulo.
Mostly we use the frenemies.
Omukulo ali omundu.
A frenemy is a person.
Omundu yuno mwaba nende bulebe nenabwo khale.
This person you had a relations in the past.
Wakana kuko namwe kukhuo akwamwayo.
Maybe your grandfather or grandfather is from there.
Benabo khuloma khuli, bakulo.
Those ones we refer to them as frenemies.
Benabo nibo barusia omundu mwonoyu mumechi.
Those are the ones that remove that person from the water.
Khwalola ekhafu khwabawa.
We will look for a cow and give them.
Khwabasinga nekamanyasi kefwe.
We shall wash them with our herbs.
Hesbon: Mmhh. Sindani: Barusia omundu oyo.
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: Those who removed that person.
Sindani: Welifwa lia maraba.
Sindani: Who died a bad death.
Becha basikha, basikha silo basikha sikha bwangu busa mala bario bacha omukuka.
They come and burry fast at night and go that way.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Orioo.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: Thank you.
Hesbon: Eeh nesili khuliekesio lieneli kuka.
Hesbon: When I am still on that teaching elder.
Liekesio lia luswa lino.
The information on the curse.
Nenya nga ewe omusakhulu omukolie ori.
I want you as an old elder.
Walile bibiaki bikali.
You have eaten many harvests (lived long).
Sindani: Orio omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Nenya umbolele.
Hesbon: I want you to tell me.
Luswa luno.
This curse.
Nende kamakhuwa kebandu bekhwama birimba bienje bino babalanga bali sinanu?
And the matters about these people who come from abroad, what are they called?
Sindani: Bakharunda bano.
Sindani: These white people.
Hesbon: Luswa luno nendee.
Hesbon: This curse and.
Kamabebasio kebakharunda kano khakakhuyila kariena nga efwe babukusu?
How are the white people taking us as Bukusus.
Sindani: Nga efwefwe babukusu namwe bandu bamali musibala siefwe sino.
Sindani: We us Bukusus or black people in our country.
Eeh kamebasio komukharunda.
The white persons thoughts.
Kalakhukosasianga.
Ther are confusing us.
Kakhutibisie, kakhutimisie.
They have lost and confused us.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Omukuka omukharunda aloma ali nga aluno ari nochaa.
Sindani: Elder, a white person says this when you go at a certain place today.
Sindani: Mubamerika baloma bali omusecha abeye, omusecha. Hesbon: Omusecha wasie.
Sindani: The Americans say a man should marry a fellow man. Hesbon: A fellow man.
Sindani: Bali omusecha ali.
Sindani: That the man is.
Ali nende bulekhule bwekhubeya omusecha owasie.
Has the freedom to marry a fellow man.
Hesbon: Akosi. Sindani: Omukhasi ali nende bulekhule bwe khubeya omukhasi wasie.
Hesbon: There it is. Sindani: A woman has the freedom to marry a fellow woman.
Sindani: Omukhasi obeya omusecha mala samwibula babana ta.
Sindani: As a woman, you marry a man and you don't have kids.
Aba lulwibulo, enganga yakhuba nomusecha namwe nomukhasi.
The generation or the joy of having a wife or husband.
Namutamba babana aba eli si?
What will it be not to have children.
Hesbon: Orio. Sindani: Omukharunda ali khakhukosasia kuka.
Hesbon: Thank you. Sindani: A white person is confusing us elder.
Hesbon: Wabone musakhulu Sindani.
Hesbon: Have you seen elder Sindani.
Sindani: Nakhurekeresie omukuka.
Sindani: I am listening to you elder.
Hesbon: Abanga bali wele khakaba, wele khabumbi.
Hesbon: If God the giver and the creator.
Kena basecha babeyisiane nende khubasecha basie.
If he wanted men to marry each other.
Andi sakarera omukhasi tawe.
He would not have brought a woman.
Ne abanga balii.
If it was that.
Wele khabumbi kenya bakhasi babeyisiane khubakhasi andi sakarera omusecha ao tawe.
If God the giver wanted women to marry fellow women, He would have brought a man.
Nono.
So.
Kino kili sa kimikharunda kie sibuyuyu.
This is just a white people's lifestyle of confusion.
Kilikho kikhaka khukhwonaka chindengekhelelo che babukusu.
That is trying to destroy the Bukusu traditions.
Malaa.
And.
Ndakhubolelanga musakhulu Sindani niba sakhulekhala bulayi.
I am telling you elder Sindani if we are not careful.
Mala khwinosiemo kamakhuwa kano ta.
And discuss these matters in deatail.
Baele, baraka befwe bacha khuelana.
Our youths are going to perish.
Sindani: Omukuka khakhucha khuela nga wakhaloma.
Sindani: Elder we are going to perish as you have said.
Nalolelesie omukuka khulatiba.
I have looked careful, we are going to get lost elder.
Sikila umukharunda yuno wama khurera bulwale bwa muniafu buno bwira bandu bano.
Because a white person is the one who brought HIV/Aids that is kiling people.
Hesbon: Obwosina.
Hesbon: There it is.
Sindani: Omukharunda wama khuburera.
Sindani: It is a white person who brought it.
Omukharunda warerire kumutambo.
The white person has brought poverty.
Hesbon: Akosi. Sindani: Wabukula kamaloba kefwe wakamalao.
Hesbon: There it is. Sindani: They took our land and finished it.
Omukharunda yuno warerire enjala.
This white person has brought hunger.
Hesbon: Abiosi.
Hesbon: There it is.
Sindani: Omukharunda yuno warerire kamasomo.
Sindani: This white person has brought education.
Bali busomi bwe basungu bwakhukosasisie.
That the white people's education has confused us.
Warerire etini.
They have brought religion.
Nekamebasio kakandi bali nibo bakuristo.
And other thoughts that they are christians.
Hesbon: Abiosina.
Hesbon: That is it.
Sindani: Omukuka bino biakilile luswa lulakhumala sakhulamenya bulayi, sakhulayindila, sakhulalalma ta.
Sindni: This has made the curse to finish us, we are not going to live well, be wealth or multiply.
Hesbon: Asandi kuka.
Hesbon: Thank you elder.
Nono.
So.
Nenya khumekesio keluswa kano.
On the curse teachings.
Nenya wekesiekho.
I want you to teach.
Baele befwe babukusu nga banyala bamenya.
How our Luhya youths can live.
Khulonda khwenya khurusiao kamakhuwa kaluswa kano.
On the path of remove curse issues.
Ili.
So that.
Khumenye mungila endayi.
We live in a good way.
Khumenye mungila elakhola khulame.
We live in a way that will make us multiply.
Babolelekho musakhulu Sindani.
Tell the elder Sindani.
Sindani: Omukuka.
Sindani: Elder.
Nenya khulolekho.
I want us to look at.
Likhuwa lilalal nilio babana babukusu.
One thing that the Bukusu childern.
Balekelesia.
They ignored.
Mala likhurere kumutambo.
That has brought poverty to us.
Nende sililo nisio khulimo paka bise bino.
And the misery we are in upto this point.
Omwami omung'osi Elija.
The leader and prophet Elijah.
Wamakhukambila omwana.
He advised the child.
Masinde Muliro.
Masinde Muliro.
Amubolela ali Masinde ewewe soraruka tawe.
He told him, "Masinde you are not going to rule"
Kama khwicha kakambila omwana Wamalwa.
He came and advised the child Wamalwa.
Kamubolela ali Wamalwa njesendeo khuwe kamasuswa.
He told him, "Wamalwa come close to me so that I give you the tricks"
Hesbon: Sakaulila ta. Sindani: Omwana mwenoyu sakaulila ta.
Hesbon: He didn't listen. Sindani: That child did not listen.
Sindani: Omwana Eugine Wamalwa aama khwicha.
Sindani: The child Eugene Wamalwa came.
Khwabolela omwana Eugene khuli Eugene papa.
We told that child that, "Eugene, son"
Noche ebucherumeni niyo wandayo kafwila oche okhurerere libale, omukuka omanyile libale?
You should go to German where your sibling died at and bring us the stone, do you know the stone elder?
Hesbon: Bache bauyisie.
Hesbon: For them to go and move him.
Sindani: Omukuka khuuyisianga libale niyo omundu afwilile.
Sindani: Elder we move the stone where a person dies from.
Hesbon: Niye afwilile yaani bamukobosie mungo.
Hesbon: Where they died from in order to take them back home.
Sindani: Omukuka nga khwama khulekelesia kamenako, bubwami buno khulalolakho busa sakhulanyola okundi ta.
Sindani: Elder as we ignored all that, we will just stare at the leadership and to never get anyone.
Nabwila noma ndi.
That is why I say that.
Luswa luno bakuka salwirira abwene.
This curse elders doen't kill on the spot.
Lakini lwiririra busa naluchilila.
But it kills as it continues.
Hesbon: Orioo. Sindani: Omukuka kase kano namukaleka.
Hesbon: Thank you. Sindani: Elder if you ignore my words.
Sindani: Nemukabone.
Sindani: You will see.
Hesbon: Eese kuka.
Hesbon: I, elder.
Nembolela baele ba sibukusu nandii.
I tell the Bukusu youths that.
Babe nende limanya mboo.
They should have knowledge that.
Nakharunda bano, bakhwichilemo busa, bakhwichamo mala bali bekhucha.
These white people just came to us but they are to go back.
Nebakharunda bano nabakhecha ta.
Before the white people came.
Chindengekhelwo chefwe nga babukusu chabao.
Our traditions as Bukusus were there.
Mala bakuka befwe siakila bamenya kimiaka kimikali.
And the reason our ancestors lived for long.
Baba nende buambane.
They had unity.
Balonda chindengekhelwo cha sibukusu chino mala balama.
They followed these Bukusu traditions and multiplied.
Nono musakhulu Sindani.
So elder Sindani.
Kaliyo kamakhuwa bali chisimo.
There are things known as riddles.
Chisimo.
Riddles.
Mululuya.
In Luhya.
Chili.
They are.
Chakhuyila babandu nga efwefwe khube nende limanya.
To make people like us to have knowledge.
Lili sindu fulani siakholekhnga.
That a certain thing used to happen.
Mala khulame.
And we multiply.
Nono.
So.
Ewe manyile nga nawakhola bubuskhulu bwoo buno.
I know as you have become old.
Oli omusakhulu.
You are an old man.
Olile bibiaki.
Who has eaten harvests (lived long).
Oli omusakhulu.
You are an old man.
Owibusie babandu.
Who has sired with people.
Oli omusakhulu.
You are an old woman.
Omurunda kaloma ali okhombile echumbi.
A white person said who has licked salt.
Sindani: Orio omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Mbolelekho.
Hesbon: Tell me.
Chisimo chino.
These parables.
Nicho ndala sina.
What kind are they.
Nee chikholekhanga mungila si?
And they happen in which way.
Sindani: Orio muno omukuka khungoboselia.
Sindani: Thank you elder for coming back to me.
Khwama khuulila khuli likhuwa bali chisimo, chisimo chino.
We have the word parables, these parables.
Omubukusu omutayi, kachirao chasi?
Why did the first Bukusu establish them?
Chisimo chino.
These parables.
Chisomia.
They teach.
Chirera burume.
They bring a message.
Chikila.
They make.
Omundu okhanyolanga kamakhuwa bwangubwangu ta, kanyola kamakhuwa kenako.
A person who does not understand things fast to understand those words.
Chisimo chino nga nomile chili nende burume.
These parables as I said they have a message.
Mala chosia khubuli mundu.
And they reach to everyone.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Seli bwangu onyole omundu okhaulila lusimo ta.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: It is not easy to find a person who does not understand the parable.
Sindani: Omukuka mbekho nga lusimo lulala namwe chibili chiri khubone?
Sindani: Elder give one or two parables we see.
Hesbon: Omuubukusuu.
Hesbon: A Bukusu.
Kaloma ali nanda kambilwa kakona khumwana kwe njoli.
Whoever doesn't listen, sleeps on the elephant's pathway.
Sindani: Orio muno omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Sindani: Ali nanda kambilwa. Both: Kakona khumwanda kwenjoli.
Sindani: That whoever does not listen. Both: Sleeps on the elephant's pathway
Sindani: Namwe.
Sindani: Or.
Omundu kaloma ali enjofu ya bubwayaya sekhukhusianga kumusanga tawe.
A person said an elephant that does not settle down does not grow its tusks.
Namwe saloma ario kuka?
Or don't they say that elder.
Hesbon: Ao sina wecha bulayi kuka.
Hesbon: On that you have said it well elder.
Sindani: Ali nende sifune.
Sindani: They have a reason.
Namwe lundi kaloma ali mbakaya kaya kameno.
Or they also said a confused person burnt their teeth.
Hesbon: Mhh. Sindani: Sali nesifuno omukuka?
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: Don't they have a reason elder?
Hesbon: Akosina ali nesifuno.
Hesbon: That is it, they have a reason.
Sindani: Bakalakhomo omukuka khulole.
Sindani: Say something elder.
Hesbon: Nono.
Hesbon: So.
Anano.
Here.
Baliyo bandu bakhaulilanga bandu bakhulu nababolela ta.
There are those who don't listen when elders talk to them.
Ne omundu okhaulila lio omundu omukhulu ta niye nanda kambilwa.
And a person who doesn't listen to an elder is the one who doesn't listen.
Ne olaloba khuulila kamakhuwa kebabandu bakhulu.
And when you refuse to listen to the elders words.
Okhoyo omanye oli.
You should know that.
Siliyo sisindu silakhunyola.
There is something that will catch up with you.
Nebakhubolela bali.
If they tell you that.
Okhwemaa.
You should not stand.
Khumuyila.
On the road.
Chisa che silo ta.
Not at night time.
Newe soulila kamakhuwa kenako ta wima khumuyila paka chisa chimbi.
And you don't listen to those words and stand on the road upto the bad hours.
Omanyile oli aba chindngunywe chilakhola chirie?
You know that the police will do what?
Sindani: Chindangunywe chilakhuamba. Hesbon: Chilakhuamba.
Sindani: The police will arrest you. Hesbon: They will arrest you.
Hesbon: Bakhubolela bali okhaayaya.
They tell you not to loiter around.
Khubakhasi babene ta.
On other people's wives.
Newe oloma oli.
And you say that.
Both: Bano bakhwichila efwe.
Both: These ones came for us.
Hesbon: Kene muniafu ekhole erie?
Hesbon: What will HIV do to you?
Sindani: Ekhuambe.
Sindani: You will be infected.
Hesbon: Nebaloma balii?
When they say that.
Okhayindula chimoni khubindu bia bene ta.
You should not stare at other people's things.
Namwe okhaba nekumukhono kumuleyi ta.
Or you should not be a thief.
Newe oli.
And you say.
Abwenao niyo nyola bulilo.
That is where I eat from.
Kene okhole orie?
What will you do?
Sindani: Kene oambwe.
Sindani: You will be caught.
Hesbon: Asanti.
Hesbon: Thank you.
Sindani: Omukuka nesikachulakho sesi nesitakho.
Sindani: As I still talk and add something.
Chisimo chino chikambila.
These parables teach.
Nga nomile.
As I said.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana mzee.
Hebon: Very well elder.
Sindani: Nono lundi chichindi bloma bali.
Sindani: So others they say that.
Bali onyola babana nga aluno ari balomile bali.
You will find children nowadays saying that.
Bali okhaayaya ta.
That you should not move around.
Okhayaya ta ikhala asi osome.
You should move around but seat down and study.
Oyosina wabira wabira.
You will see them allover the place.
Oli likela licha.
When the results are out.
Both: Niye omumalilisi.
Both: They are the last ones.
Sindani: Niye omumualilisi enyuma eyo sakenya khubonakho omundu okundi enyuma wewe ta.
Sindani: They are the last ones even from behind.
Hesbon: Sakana ta.
Hesbon: They don't want.
Sindani: Wabone?
Sindani: You see?
Nono nololela omwana limenya nga omwenoyu.
When you the life for such a child.
Limenya licha khumunania.
Life will challenge them.
Hesbon: Nono nalimunania lirio.
Hesbon: When it challenges them that way.
Nobona aloma ali bandoka.
You will see them say they were bewitched.
Sindani: Ese bandoka ese sibala sino siakhayile. Hesbon: Tawe.
Sindani: They bewitched me, life has been difficult to me. Hesbon: No.
Sindani: Ewe niwe okhayile sibala.
Sindani: You are the one who has challenged the world.
Hesbon: Omwenoyu niye nanda kambilwa.
Hesbon: That is the one who doesn't listen.
Mala nono, kanjile khukona khusinanu?
So they have started sleeping on what?
Sindani: Khumwanda kwachana.
Sindani: On the said pathway.
Hesbon: Okwosina.
Hesbon: That is it.
Nee.
And.
Naba mbira abundu nembulila basakhulu balii.
I was passing somewhere and I heard elders saying.
Kenda mbola wola ebunyolo.
Whoever walks slowly reaches Luo land.
Mala nasiila nakanakana.
I kept quite and gave it much thought.
Kenda mbola wola ebunyolo.
Whoever walks slowly reaches the Luo land.
Mala nandi tawe.
I said no.
Ndanyolakho omusakhulu Sindani mala kambolelekho.
I will meet elder Sindani to tell me.
Kenda mbola wola ebunyolo.
Whoever walks slowly reaches the Luo land.
Abandu bano baba balii.
These people were.
Bakachulula sinanu?
What were they talking about?
Sindani: Omukuka. Hesbon: Mala lola wele kayetile.
Sindani: Elder. Hesbon: Look God has made it possible.
Hesbon: Mundalo yino lola khwakanane.
Hesbon: We have met this day.
Sindani: Wele ali omubofu mundalo ya nyongesa yino bona khwakanane.
Sindani: God is great this Sartuday we have met.
Omukuka.
Elder.
Bali mukenda mbola.
That whoever walks slowly.
Both: Kola ebunyolo.
Both: They reach at Luo land.
Sindani: Omukuka.
Sindani: Elder.
Khumanyile khuli sakenyekhana khukhole kamakhuwa kefwe mungila eli kalaa tawe.
We know we are not supposed to do our things in a slow way.
Sakenyekhana ebe bukalaa bubiririra tawe.
It should not be extremely slow.
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: Bube busa bukalaa.
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: It should be a normal slowness.
Sindani: Nelundi khukhaakara ta.
Sindani: And we should not hurry.
Hesbon: Bali mbakara kalia bibisi.
Hesbon: The person who rushed ate not well cooked food.
Sindani: Kalia bibisi.
Sindani: They ate not well coooked food.
Khuakara.
To rush.
Ebele mubukhangarani.
Whether in politics.
Ebele mubulimi.
Whether in farming.
Ebele mubusomi.
Whether in education.
Omukuka sakhucha abundu tawe.
Elder we don't go anywhere.
Nono.
So.
Lusimo luno lwekesiambo.
This parable shows that.
Mbo khukhole kamakhuwa kefwe.
That we should do our own things.
Khukhacha mumbilo tawe.
We should not hurry.
Khuche busa mungila.
We should just go in a way.
Engwalafu.
The right one.
Sindani: Omukuka sakali kario: Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Sindani: Elder is it that way. Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Omukuka lundi lerakho lusiimo lulundi khulomekho khubone.
Sindani: Elder bring another parable we talk about.
Hesbon: Ndatasakhoo abwenao sisindu.
Hesbon: So I will add something there.
Aundu bali kenda mbola aoo.
On that issue of walking slowly.
Yaani.
Therefore.
Buli sindu nisio okhola mubuterefu sisindu esio sibechanga nenganga.
Everything you do careful turns out to have value.
Sindani: Orio omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Olabona bali kenda mbola.
Hesbon: When they say walk slowly.
Bali bandu bakali sana baakarira bindu.
There are so many people who rushed with things.
Mala nga nakhukachula khuri sabaliyo ta.
As we are talking now, they are not there.
Aliyo omwana maye, aliyo.
There is this child.
Omukhongo.
A boss.
Wasibala.
Of a country.
Sia bayiraka.
Of the Iraqis.
Kabechanga bali Sadamu.
Was called Saddam.
Kaba nende liyakara.
He was in a rush.
Mala.
And.
Musakhulu, katabusia khubulayi?
Elder, did he end well?
Sindani: Oyo sakatabusia khubulayi tawe. Hesbon: Sakanyola lifwa lia maraba.
Sindani: That one didn't end well. Hesbon: Did he not die a brutal death?
Sindani: Kamakhuwa ako kamuramba.
Sindani: Things backfired on him.
Hesbon: Nono. Sindani: Nabwila ekhukambila.
Hesbon: So. Sindani: That is why I am advising you.
Hesbon: Waloma ali kenda mbola bola ebunyolo.
Hesbon: Whoever said who walks slowly reaches the Luo land.
Kaba omusakhulu.
Was an elder.
Wenganga.
Of value.
Mala.
And.
Ese mbolela baele ba sibukusu ndi bakende mbola.
I tell the Bukusu youths to walk slowly.
Bakhola ebunyolo.
They will reach the Luo land.
Bakende mbola.
They should walk slowly.
Balie kamatunda.
For them to eat the fruits.
Baliee.
They eat.
Bibumbi bie chinyama chindayi.
A bunch of good meat.
Sindani: Orio muno omukuka, ata kamenako.
Sindani: Thank you elder, even those ones
Omukuka noloma orio nakhulolelela bana befwe bakhangarani bano.
Elder when you say that we look at our politician children.
Bali babana nibo khweyikine.
They are the children we are counting on.
Nekhali nololelela bali babana nibo babenya.
But when you look they children who want.
Kenya endalo yaluno kanje khwombakha mala lundi luno busa kengisie.
They want to start building a house today and start living in it today.
Mala kamakhuwa kenako sakanyalikhane ta.
Yet that is not possible.
Nekhali.
However.
Bacha mbola.
If they go slowly.
Mala bakhola nga khwenya, omukuka.
And they do the way we want elder.
Nyinga niyo nyinga baloma bali nyinga niyo nyinga.
There will be a day as they say a day will be there.
Sindani: Efula ekwa nekamakhonge kamela. Hesbon: Nyinga eliba, bali kamakhonge kamela. Sindani: Sakali kario omukuka?Hesbon: Ne bali nyinga sesi ndiba ndio.
Sindani: It will rain and the strong trong bushes will grow. Hesbo: The indigenous trees will grow. Sindani: Isn't that way? Hesbon: One day I will also be that way.
Sindani: Mmh.
Sindani: Mmh.
Hesbon: Nono.
Sindani: So.
Musakhulu Sindani.
Elder Sindani.
Nee ndakhuuwa.
I will give you.
Basoleli nga bakina Wetang'ula bano.
Boys like this Wetang'ula.
Sindani: Mmh.
Sindani: Mmh.
Hesbon: Basoleli nga bakina Eugene.
Boys like Eugene.
Wicha onyola basoleli bokhwamaa.
You find boys from.
Both: Omwana Ababu Namwamba bano.
Both: A child Ababu Namwamba.
Hesbon: Nolola.
Hesbon: When you look.
Bali mulusimo lwa kenda mbola.
Are they on the parable of walking slowly.
Namwe balikho baakarira bindu.
Or they are rushing thing things.
Sindani: Omukuka khakhendo khefwe sakhalakhinanga khunyanja khuno ta.
Sindani: Elder, our magic guard is not swimming on this occean.
Khendo khano khafwana kheyinikhe.
The magic guard appears to have sunk.
Nololelela babana bano sabalikho alala ta.
If you look at these children, they are not together.
Ata nga khwabele esaboti.
When we were in Sabaot.
Nekhukhebulila.
In rememberance.
Omukhangarani befwe Wamalwa Kijana, babana bano babele alala.
Our our politician Wamalwa Kijana, these children were together.
Lakini buli mundu nalosia obona kamebasio kabwe kacha sibacho.
But when everyone talk, you see their thoughts go in different directions.
Hesbon: Bacha sibacho kabisa. Sindani: Bana bano balaakaranga.
Hesbon: They go away from the point. Sindani: These children are rushing.
Sindani: Sakhabacha mbola ta.
They are not going slowly.
Nenono nga bakhacha mbola ta.
Since they don't go slowly.
Basiku niyo bekhale balalolelanga nabaloma bali ta.
The enemies wherever they are seated, they are looking and saying, okay.
Enju ye babukusu.
A Bukusu house.
Yasalanikhe.
It has scattered.
Nono nga esalanikhe.
As it have scattered.
Omusiku kepela akari ao.
The devil came between.
Nanyola niso kenya.
And found what he wanted.
Namwe oli sina omukuka?
Or what do you say elder.
Hesbon: Abwenao.
Hesbon: On that.
Wakhecha mungila endayi sana.
You have come in a good way.
Nisio khubasaba.
What we ask of them.
Balole nde kamakhuwa kesibukusu.
They should look at the Bukusu matters.
Ne eli kaba Elija Wanameme namwe Masinde Muliro?
Was it Elijah Wanameme or Masinde Muliro.
Sindani: Kaba Elija: Hesbon: Waloma alii.
Sindani: It was Elijah. Hesbon: Who said that.
Hesbon: Bubwami bwe baluya bwamila wae?
Hesbon: Lunya leadership comes from where?
Sindani: Bwamila khunyanja.
Sindani: It comes fron the ocean.
Hesbon: Kabisa.
Hesbon: True.
Ne bubwami buno nebwakhamila khunyanjaa.
When this leadership comes from the ocean.
Bwicha burie?
How does it come?
Sindani: Omukuka.
Sindani: Elder.
Enyanja niyo khuloma yino.
The ocean we are saying.
Seyaba enyanja ya walule nga bandu bakanakananga tawe.
It was not the Walule ocean (renamed lake victoria) as people think.
Hesbon: Yinosiakhomo abwenao khubone. Sindani: Enyanja yino.
Hesbon: Explain on that please. Sindani: This ocean.
Sindani: Niyo Elija kaloma.
Sindani: That Elijah said.
Kaba aloma.
He was saying.
Nalolele sisindu bali khakhendo.
He was looking at something known as magic guard.
Khakhendo khakhinga khunyanja namwe khumechi?
The magic guard float on the ocean or water.
Hesbon: Nakhabone khakhina khumechi
Hesbon: I have seen it, it floats on water.
Sindani: Nono khaleyinikha omukuka aba wacha orie, aba ewe kamakhuwa kacha bulayi namwe kacha bubi? Hesbon: Aba kamakhuwa sakhakacha bulayi ta.
Sindani: What happens when it sinks elder, will things be going well for you elder? Hesbon: Things will not be going well for you.
Sindani: Nono omukuka.
Sindani: So elder.
Elija kaba nakekesia abwenao.
Elijah was showing about that.
Nemala bana bano balekelesia.
But these children ignored.
Nabwila obona nebalimo ekimocho, ekitimo.
That is why you see them have arrogace and confusion.
Hesbon: Ebio sina. Sindani: Buli sindu siabarurirekho.
Hesbon: There it is. Sindani: Everything has left them.
Sindani: Luno luri bakendela busa sisa sia wele.
Sindani: Today they walk under God's mercy.
Hesbon: Basie.
Hesbon: True.
Sindani: Busa sabali abwene ta omukuka. Hesbon: Kabisa.
Sindani: They are not okay elder. Hesbon: True.
Hesbon: Nono.
Hesbon: So.
Esese nga omusakhulu omukolio.
I as an old man.
Omusakhulu.
An old man.
Omenyile khusibala khuno.
Who lives on this world.
Wandawa, nakhasimile.
Wandabwa, I would appreciate.
Baele bano bachilile nende lusimo lwa kenda mbola wola ebunyolo.
These youths to continue with the parable of whoever walks slowly reaches the Luo land.
Nee.
And.
Musakhulu Sindani.
Elder Sindani.
Luliyo lundi lusimo naba ngenda abundu mala naluulila.
There is another parble I heard while I was walking somewhere.
Mala lwaba nende kamekesio kamakali sana.
It had a lot of teaching.
Sindani: Mbolele khubone omukuka.
Sindani: Tell me elder.
Hesbon: Lusimo luno, basakhulu baba bali mutangw'ali yabwe khabakhomba lisifwa.
Hesbon: This parable, the elders were at local drinking joint.
Nabaa.
And then
No omusakhulu okundi kenyokha busa nabolela owasie ali ewewe nga nokhokachula nabone okhoye omanye oli sirii, sekhuwa walia ta.
Another elder stood up and said to the other, "as you are speaking you should know that with competition, no way I will give you to eat.
Nasiriri yino nayo seyeta ta.
And this competition does not help.
Mala nasila nandi eeh.
I kept quite and wondered.
Kano kabakho kamatinyu.
This has become complicated.
Siriri sekhuwa walia ta seyeta, omusakhulu yumo.
Competition cannot make me give you to eat and it doesn't help, this old man.
Alinende sifunani sina?
What does he mean?
Sindani: Omukuka.
Sindani: Elder.
Sindani: Bali siriri sekhola eriena ta? Hesbon: Bali siriri sekhuwa walia ta.
Sindani: That competition cannot do what? Hesbon: That competition cannot make you eat?
Sindani: Mmh. Hesbon: Nesiriri yino lundi seyeta ta.
Sindani: And this competition does not help.
Sindani: Omukuka khulondekhana nende lusimo lwenolu.
Sindani: Elder, based on that parable.
Lusimo luno luli khalukania bukhangarani bukali.
This parable is warning about too much political competition.
Buyikayikana.
Too much competition.
Khuyingana.
To argue.
Hesbon: Orioo. Sindani: Nekamakhuwa kafwana kario.
Hesbon: Thank you. Sindani: And such like things.
Sindani: Sokhoya wabamo bukhangarani bubiririra sikeelo tawe omukuka.
Sindani: You should have so much political competition elder.
Weolelesia newanyola nisio wenya.
You humble yourself to get what you want.
Aluno ari nololelela bawandaye befwe bakhangarani bano.
Today when you look at our political siblings.
Bali khabakhangarana sana.
They are competing much.
Balikhabatima chimbilo chingali sana.
They are running too fast.
Balikhabayingana saana.
They are arguing a lot.
Nono.
So.
Nabwila nilio nakhaloma ndi, khuyinga khuuno.
That is why I said, the arguments.
Omukuka babukusu sabalanyola siosi tawe.
Elder, Bukusus will not get anything.
Wambulile emboko.
Have you heard me mate (buffalo).
Hesbon: Naulile omusani.
Hesbon: I have heard you man.
Asanti sana.
Thanks a lot.
Eeh nono nga khwakhaba nekhuli khumkahuwa kechisimo ako.
So as we are on the parble issues.
Mbara chisom chino.
I think these parables.
Chilikho chekesiia baele befwe kamakhuwa fulani kamalayi sana.
It teaches our youths certain good things.
Nelundi chilikho chibenoselia mbo.
And they are explaining to them that.
Bamenye.
They live.
Ngaa.
Like.
Omubukusu.
A Bukusu.
Oranga namwe omubukusu wanyoa.
The first one or the Bukusu who begun.
Nga nakakhuwa kamalaka kewe.
As he gave you his rules.
Nee.
And.
Omubukusu yuno ali nende bibindu nibwo.
This Bukusu has things that.
Nibwo kaamina ali nokhola sindu fulani.
That he believes when you are doing something.
Sindu fulani silakholekha.
Acertain thing will happen.
Nono nenya umbolelekho kamakhuwa namwe khukachulekho khusindu nisio baloma balii.
So I wantt you to tell me things or we talk about something they say that.
Khuu.
On.
Hesbon: Nisio omubukusu asubila, lisubila lio omubukusu lili. Sindani: Asubila.
Hesbon: What a Bukusu believes in, where the Bukusu believe is. Sindani: Believes in.
Hesbon: Nokhola sindu fulani, sindu fulani silakholekha.
Hesbon: When you do a certain thing, a certain thing will happen.
Sindani: Omukuka kuno kwosi kuli nga kumwima mund yefwe ye babukusu.
Sindani: This is like a tradition in our Bukusu family.
Khusubila kamakhuwa fulani.
We believe certain things.
Khusubila khuli likhuwa.
We believe that a word.
Namwe sindu silekholekha sino nasio silecha siekhikhemo siri.
Or if this thing happen, another thing will come and conradict.
Kamakhuwa kano mala omukuka kali kamakali.
Elder this things are many.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Wabone, nge efwe bamasaba khusubila khuli.
Sindani: As the Masaba we believe that.
Notiukha papa woo nasimenyile, alakhola ariena.
When you name your father while still alive, what will happen?
Both: Alafwa.
Both: He will die.
Sindani: Abone. Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Sindani: You see. Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Omubukusu.
Sindani: A Bukusu.
Nekhunyoela ekhusubila.
When we begin from believing.
Omubukusu abele kasubila wele.
A Bukusu used to believe in God.
Sindani: Bele omubukusu asaba nalolelela musikulu sia masaba. Hesbon: Aloma ali wele khakaba.
Sindani: A Bukusu used to pray while looking at the Masaba mounting. Hesbon: He said God the giver.
Sindani: Wele khakaba, wele mukhobe, wele khabumbi. Hesbon: Wele khabumbi.
Sindani: God the giver, the protector and the creator. Hesbon: God the creator.
Sindani: Wabone, omusungu niye wama khwicha kanania chinganakani cho omwana omubukusu.
Sindani: You see, it is a white person who came and confused the thoughts of a Bukusu person.
Busa omwana omubukusu bele amanyile wele khakaba.
But a Bukusu person had known God the giver.
Ne wele yuno bele kamuka kamalaka.
This God had given him rules.
Nekamalaka kano kali nende enganga yako.
These rules have their own benefits.
Ngamwakhaulila.
As you have heard.
Sikila okhakhesia, omanyile oli otiukha papa woo mala asimenya.
You know but you name your father yet you know he is alive.
Salakulumunya?
Won't he die?
Hesbon: Aoo paka akulumunye.
Hesbon: It is obvious he will die.
Sindani: Enganga, aba nanu okhuwelesie kamakesi kenako, sali papa wele? Hesbon: Eeh papa wele.
Sindani: Is it not father God who gave you that knowledge. Hesbon: It is father God.
Sindani: Okhacha eburie sibuyi tawe.
Sindani: You should not go at your in-laws in the morning.
Sindani: Omanye omukuka atayi ao bele nocha.
Sindani: Elder, long ago when you would go.
Ebuire, eburie, newepa mabwibwi nocha ebukhwe.
If you go at your in-laws at dawn.
Lukali bele onyola bamayi bano bali khabakhama.
Mostly you would find the mothers milking.
Nebandu bakhale bakonanga sichula aba wenya obone si?
And people in old days used to sleep naked, what would you want to see?
Wabone omukuka.
You see elder.
Hesbon: Aba wenya khubona sichula, sichula sio omukhwe. Sindani: aba wenye khubona sii**
Hesbon: You will want to see your in-laws nakedness. Sindani: You will want to see.**
Sindani: Mala sawenyekhana obone sichula sio omukhwe ta.
Sindani: And you are not supposed to see your in-laws nakedness.
Sindani: Wabone omwana wewe lundi yesi, wenya khulia. Hesbon: Engokho nekamaki?
Sindani: You have her daughter's nakedness, you also want to see. Hesbon: The chicken and the eggs.
Sindani: Otuba bali mwana notuba nende si, nende eng'ina?
Sindani: You mix the child and and what they say, the mother.
Hesbon: Nende eng'ina sabakholanga bario ta mhh.
Hesbon: With the mother, they don't do that.
Sindani: Nono kalio kamakhuwa kamakali niko.
Sindani: So there are many things which.
Omundu omubukusu.
A Bukusu person.
Kasubila namwe niko amanyile mumakesi kewe.
What they believe in or knows inside their minds.
Amanyile sindu lifwa esino.
They know something like death.
Sina sikila lifwa libeo?
Why would death be there.
Hesbon: Wakhanjinoseliamo abwenao musakhulu. Sindani: Nesirerire lifwa lino, sili si?
Hesbon: You should explain that to me elder. Sindani: And what brings death.
Sindani: Nomundu nakakhafwa.
Sindani: When a person dies.
Amenyanga abundu aandi musibala asindi?
Do they live in another place in another world?
Namwe sina sikholekhanga, nanwe afwilanga elala.
Or what usually happens or they die forever.
Omukuka yinosiakho abwenao.
Elder, explain on that.
Hesbon: Eeeh omubukusu.
Hesbon: Eeh a Bukusu.
Paka syi amanyile ali omundu afwa.
Until today they know a person dies.
Nelifwa lino liama khale.
This death started long ago.
Naba oli mbira abundu nomusakhulu okundu ali lola lebe kakulumunya.
I was passing somewhere and heard an elder say look, someone has died.
Nomusakhulu okundi amubolela ali tawe.
Another elder told him no.
Ali kano kama khale, ali lifwa liamenya.
That is begun long ago and death is always there.
Nandi aah.
I wondered.
Lifwa liamenya, eeh ali ako kamenya.
Death is always there? He said it was always there.
Oli mbona khane lisubila lio omubukusu lili omundu akholanga arie?
I realized the Bukusu believe is a person does?
Both: Afwichanga.
Both: They die.
Hesbon: Nebosi babukusu bano basubila bali omundu nakhafwa nga baa.
Hesbon: And all the Bukusus believe that when a person dies like the.
Nga babandu bachikelesia bano basubilanga bali omundu naakhafwa.
Like the church people believe that when a person dies.
Akhola arie?
They do what?
Acha wa?
Where do they go?
Sindani: Wa papa wele. Hesbon: Wa wele khakaba.
Sindani: They go to God. Hesbon: They go to God the giver.
Hesbon: Ne omubukusu yesi asubila ali omundu nafwa akhola arie?
Hesbon: A Bukusu also believes when a person dies, what happens.
Acha musibala.
They go to a world.
Nisio bakuka bakhola barie?
That ancestors did what?
Bakuka bamenyamo.
Ancestors live in.
Wabone.
You see.
Bakuka bakhale bakinaa.
Older ancestors like.
Bakina Sudi lola bafwa, bacha ebweneyi.
The likes of Sudi, look they died and went there.
Bakina Masinde bacha ebweneyi.
The likes of Masinde went there.
Wabone.
You see.
Sindani: Nabone omukuka.
I have seen elder.
Abenabo nono babukusu basubila abwenao sana.
Bukusus believed in that.
Nee.
And.
Wakhaloma oli omundu nafwa.
You said when a person dies.
Amenyanga waena?
They live where?
Omundu nafwa kama musibala sino nba acha musibla sie.
When a person dies, they come from this world and goes in a world of.
Bali batakatifu.
That christians.
Namwe baa sibala sie?
Or the world of?
Babandu baa.
People of.
Bakholanga kamakhuwa kamabi.
Who did bad things.
Nesibala sienesi omundu osimanyile.
And that world the person who knows it.
Papa wele wakhungaki.
The father above.
Sindani: Ali papa wele yeng'ene osimanya.
Sindani: It is ony father God who knows it.
Hesbon: Papa yeng'ene, sina kakila khukhwama nga khwolana khuri alikhoo omundu wafwa kakobola kakhubolela ali.
Hesbon: Only father God knows, because upto this point has any person ever died and come back to tell us that.
Sindan: Omundu mulala wakhafwilekho mala ache koleyo akhurere kaliyo khwakhamanyile lukali.
Sindani: One person would have died and came back to tell us we would have known more.
Hesbon: Eeh Sindani: Nekhali.
Hesbon: Eeh. Sindani: However.
Sindani: Efwefwe babukusu.
Sindani: We us Bukusus have our own beliefs.
Nee.
And.
Khusubila khuli omundu nakakhakona, sakonelanga elala ta.
We believe when a person dies, they don't die forever.
Hesbon: Akonanga lakini. Sindani: Abechanga.
Hesbon: They dies but. Sindani: They are alert.
Hesbon: Aba ali meso.
Hesbon: They will be alert.
Sindani: Ali meso abona nisio khukhol.Hesbon: Nisio khukhola.
Sindani: They will be alert seeing what we shall be doing. Hesbon: What we shall be doing.
Sindani: Nelundi yesi alikho mubunyali mumakhuwa niko nekhusimenyela. Hesbon: Niko khekhukhola.
Sindani: They also have power over the things we do while still living. Hesbon: That we will be doing.
Hesbon: Anyumaa ao khubolele nengachula khumakhuwa ke sikhebi, khubolele nandii.
Hesbon: Back then I told you while talking about circumcision, I told you that.
Omwana nakenya khukhebwa mala ewewe omusakhulu katiba.
When a child wants to get circumcised and you father is dead.
Khubukalanga ekhafu khucha khukhola khuriena.
We take the cow and go to do what?
Both: Khwirire khusilindwa. Hesbon: Ili omusakhulu yuno keche akhole ariena?
Both: We salughter on the grave so that this man comes to do what?
Sindani: Yeesi asangale.
Sindani: For him to also celebrate.
Hesbon: Asangale khube nenaye sisindu silala, kekhoyele nekamakhuwa kefwe kakhole karie? Sindani: Kekhoyele.
Hesbon: He rejoices to unite with us our things to do what? Sindani: He rejoices.
Kabe kamaterefu.
Sindani: To be alright.
Hesbon: Kamaterefu nio bindu bibe bulayi.
Hesbon: To be alright for things to be okay.
Nono.
So.
Balii.
That.
Omubukusu ali nende lisubila mbo nokhesia omukhwe mukhono sina sikholekha?
A Bukusu has a believe that when you shake hands with your in-law, what happens?
Sindani: Omukuka.
Sindani: Elder.
Abundu bwenao bakania.
On that issue they forbade.
Nekhali baba nende sifuno.
But they had a reason.
Mbao siekholekha ta nekhali luswa nga mbabolele salwiriranga abwene ta.
Nothing happens but as I told you a curse doesn't kill on the spot.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Nono kaba nende sifuno.
Sindani: So they had a reason.
Ewewe nokhesia masalao mukhono.
When you shake hands with your mother in-law.
Mala wanyola mbo masalao chana nechimbelekeu chabwe nakhufwara khwabwe khuno alikhakhuchekhela.
And you realize her smiling to you with their current dressing and disrespect.
Mebasio sina kakhwicha murwe?
What kind of thoughts will come in your head.
Hesbon: Kamebasio kasifwabi.
Hesbon: Lustful thoughts.
Sindani: Kali kamebasio kesifwabi sakali kamebasio karera.
Sindani: Elder they are lustiful thoughts and not thoughts that bring.
Both: Enganga ta.
Both: No value.
Sindani: Kamebasio busa kenako kong'ene omukuka.
Sindani: Those thoughts only elder.
Kanyala khukhwonaka babechukhulu boo.
They can destroy your grandchildren.
Hesbon: Kabonakila busa elala.
Hesbon: They completely destroy them.
Sindani: Likhuwa lie khabili omukuka. Hesbon: Mbolele khubone.
Sindani: The second thing elder. Hesbon: Tell me.
Sindani: Omukhaye woo kakhenyokha sibuyi.
Your wife has woken up in the morning.
Wekhupile mumambwibwi wakhenyokha.
She has woken up at dawn.
Nanyola omusakhulu anje kekhale namwe ali khanywa namukhesia mukhono.
And she finds the old man outside seated or drinking and shakes his hand.
Omukuka aba wesingile?
Elder, will she have taken a bath?
Hesbon: Sakesingile ta.
Hesbon: She will not have taken a bath.
Sindani: Aba nga mupile chimba esutiti eyo omukuka.
Sindani: Elder, as you had sex.
Asili busa sali omukwalafu nono nakhesia omusakhulu aba khamuakha si?
She will still fresh and if she shakes hands with the old man, she will be applying what on him?
Omukuka omubukusu nakania kamakhuwa kano.
Elder,when a Bukusu forbade about this things.
Kaba nende sifuno.
They had a reason.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Mala bifuno ebino biliyo.
Sindani: These reasons are there.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Eeeh sisindu sisindi.
Eeh another thing.
Nisio nenyile khukhurebakho.
Which I wanted to ask you.
Khumakhuwa kalisubila lino.
On the faith issues.
Omubukusu yuno asubila ali wele.
This Bukusu believes that God.
Mbulilanga bachikelesia.
I hear the church people.
Sindani: Orio omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Nabaloma balii.
Hesbon: They say that.
Bali wele akheche, omubukusu yesi asubila ali wele akheche?
That God will come, does a Bukusu also believe that God will come.
Sindani: Omukuka efwefwe nga babukusu.
Sindani: Elder, we as Bukusus.
Sakhusubila khuli wele akheche ta.
We don't believe that God will come.
Khumanyile khuli wele kaumba sibala.
We know that God created the world.
Wakhuwa efwe bulamu.
He gave us life.
Mala wakhulekha khusibala khuno.
And He left us on this world.
Nono nali wicha aba akheche khukhola si?
So if He is supposed to come, what will He come to do?
Hesbon: Semanya abwenao ta nono. Sindani: Omukuka, omukuka.
Hesbon: I don't know about that. Sindani: Elder, elder.
Sindani: Efwefwe khumanyile khuli wele wabao nemala aliyo nemala salicha lundi ta.
We know that God was there, is there and He will never come again.
Hesbon: Lakini khumanyile khuli aliyo.
Hesbon: But we know that He is there.
Sindani: Khumanyile khuli aliyo efwefwe nga babukusu. Hesbon: Nono oh.
Sindani: We know that He is there us Bukusus. Hesbon: So.
Hesbon: Musakhulu olalomanga oli.
Hesbon: Elder you are saying that.
Khukhwama khusimachamcha.
From the beginning.
Omubukusu sasubila ali wele akheche lundi ta?
A Bukusu does not belive that God will come again?
Sindani: Omukuka kamenako kali busa kamebasio komukharunda kenya kekhale nakhurikhirisia nabukula kimiandu kiefwe.
Sindani: Elder those are just thoughts of a white person who wants to scare us and take our wealth.
Nabukula kimikunda kiefwe.
As they take our land.
Babana befwe nebakhasi befwe.
Our children and our wives.
Nabakosasia nio anyole nisio kenya.
And confuse them in order to get what they want.
Lakini wele aliyo nesalicha lundi ta.
But God is there but He will never come again.
Kecha nacha waena nemala aliyo.
He comes to go where yet He is already here.
Hesbon: Nembulilanga bechikelesia nabaloma bali esuku yesinyasio ekhabeo.
Hesbon: I hear the church people say a suffering day will be there.
Esuku niyo bakhachungusie kamakhuwa kamabi niko wakholanga, kamakhuwa kamalayi niko wakholaga.
The day they will analyze the good and bad things you deed.
Esuku ng'eneyi ekheche suku sina?
When will that day come?
Sindani: Omukuka nenya khurusia libasio lienelio salili lilayi tawe omukuka.
Sindani: Elder, I want to remove that thought because it is not a good one.
Endalo yesinyasio ng'eneyo selibao ta.
There will be no suffering day.
Nenya ololele omwana omumasaba nga nemenyile.
I want you to look at how a Musaba child I live.
Omukirisitayo bali abatisibwa.
A christian gets baptized.
Sawabone.
You see.
Hesbon: Aosi.
Hesbon: There it is.
Sindani: Omubukusu naye nga kachile khwingila.
Sindani: As a Bukusu gets circumcised.
Abatisibwa mumecho omwo.
He gets circumcised in that water.
Hesbon: Akosi.
Hesbon: There it is.
Sindani: Yesu kirisito oyoyo.
Sindani: That Jesus christ.
Nga wafwa.
When He died.
Kamala emakombe eyo chisuku chinga?
How long did He spend in the afterlife?
Hesbon: Bachikelesia baloma bali chitaru.
Hesbon: Church people said three.
Sindani: Chitaru.
Sindani: Three.
Khwikhalanga lufu esuku yakhenga?
What day do we perform the three days after burial?
Hesbon: Esuku yakhataru.
Hesbon: The third day.
Sindani: Nono omukuka fwesi khuli omumsaba nomubukusu kaba nende engila yewe niyo amenyilamo alinga nasubila.
Sindani: So elder as Bukusu and Masaba had their own of living and believing.
Nololelela chingila chewe nende chomundu niye khuloma khuli omukirisito yuno sachaukhanekho ta.
But if you look at the their ways and those of a christians are different.
Buno buli busa bukesi bwomukharunda khukhwicha khuno nakhukosasia.
That is the knowledge of a white person to come and confuse us.
Natibia kamakesi kefwe nakamebasio niko omubukusu amanyile.
They confuse our brain and thoughts that Bukusu know.
Hesbon: Nono umbolela olii.
Hesbon: So you are telling me that.
Lisubila lio omubukusu lili mbo wele aliyo lakini salicha lundi ta.
A Bukusu person faith is God is there but He will never come again.
Sindani: Wele, omubukusu amanyile li wele liyo mala kabao.
Sindani: A Bukusu knows God is there and was there.
Nenono nekhuli khwicha khane aba akheche khwama waena? omubukusu amanyile.
If He has to come, where will He come from? A Bukusu knows.
Hesbon: Nee, mbonanga babukusu nebasikha omundu.
Hesbon: And I see when Bukusus burry a person.
Balosianga.
They face.
Kumurwee.
The head.
Ebunafubo namwe wae?
To the south or where?
Sindani: Khuli nende likwe.
Sindani: We have the east.
Mumbo.
West.
Ebunaswa.
The north.
Emufubo.**
The south.
Hesbon: Balosianga kumurwe ebunaswa,ta?
Hesbon: The face the head to the north, right?
Sindani: Orio omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Nee balosia.
Hesbon: And when they face.
Nebalosia mumbo namwe balosia.
They face in the west of face at.
Khane wakhaloma oli waena omukuka?
Where did you say elder.
Sindani: Mumbo namwe mufubo.
Sindani: West or south.
Hesbon: Namwe mufubo, sina sinyala siakholekha?
Hesbon: Or the south, what could happen?
Sindani: Omukuka efwefwe khuli babana bama emisiri.
Sindani: Elder, we are children who came from Misri.
Nakhwicha musibala sino.
And came to this country.
Khwamila waena omukuka?
Where did we come from elder?
Hesbon: Wakhaloma khwama misiri.
Hesbon: You said we came from Misri.
Nakhwichilaa, nakhubirira.
And we passed through.
Mubali lwana befwe mubukanda.
Through our young ones in Uganda.
Sindani: Nono norekeresia omubukusu alomanga ali auya nakhola ariena?
Sindani: So elder when you listen to a Bukusu, they say that they move while doing what?
Hesbon: Auya naninina. Sindani: Nanina.
Hesbon: They move going upward. Sindani: They go upwards.
Hesbon: Nalola emunina mmh. Sindani: Sakekhanga tawe.
Hesbon: The face the mountain mmh. Sindani: They go down.
Sindani: Omukuka kanemenako nekakandi busa wakhakhebusia lundi likhuwa alindi.
Sindani: Elder, those and others you have reminded me another thing.
Nebasikha omundu baliyo basakhulu bakhulu nga efwe bakolio khulolelanga omusakhulu mwonoyu namwe omundu mwenoyu kakonile ariena.
When they burry a person there are old men like me who look at how the old man or person has slept.
Sindani: Akhola ario kakona bubi mala lukoba lwakhola luriena? ekholo yaela. Wabone omukuka. Hesbon: Yaela.
Sindani: They may sleep wrongly and make the family do what? the clan to get destroyed. Hesbon: The clan to be destroyed.
Sindani: Lakini omukharunda wechile samumanyile kamenako enywe tawe.
Sindani: But a white person has come you don't know that.
Bana baraka mulaela khubela kamakhuwa kafwana kari.
Youths are going to be perish becuse of such things.
Kamenako kali busa kamakhuwa niko khulomile khuli omundu omubukusu bele.
Those are the matters we said a Bukusu person would.
Omukuka.
Elder.
Khwama khuloma khuli khukona bubi.
We have said sleeping wrongly.
Hesbon: Yee nakhaba nenya khukhureba lireba abwenao.
Hesbon: I wanted to ask you a question there.
Khukona bubi khuno nikhwo khukona khuriena?
What does sleeping wrongly mean.
Sindani: Omukuka onyala waba wakonile mala wakana okonile khumukhono.
Sindani: Elder, you may be sleeping on your hand.
Wabone?
You see?
Onyola waba okonele kumukhono mulala.
You may have slept on one hand.
Lakini omundu omubukusu khusubila khuli sawenyekhana okone oriorio tawe.
But we don't believe a Bukusu person should sleep that way.
Kenyekhana okona bukwalale busa nikalamilile.
You are supposed to sleep calmly facing up.
Wabone omukuka, namwe wakonile mala walolile lubeka lulala.
You see it elder, or maybe you have slept facing one side.
Omukuka abwenao ekholo ekhola erio yaela, bele omwana abele omundu omukhulu.
Elder on that the clan may perish be it a child or and adult.
Wabone omukuka,
You see it elder.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Subila ndi nenonisisie elomo ng'eneyo bulayi.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: I believe I have explained that issue well.
Hesbon: Abwenao musakhulu nakhunyolile.
Hesbon: On that, I have understood you elder.
Nee.
And.
Eeh khukona bulayi.
And sleeping well.
Oli wakhaloma oli khukona bubi wakonele kumukhono.
You said sleeping wrongly, you sleep on your hand.
Sindani: Kumukhono namwe ta wakana walolile lubeka lulala.
Sindani: The hand or you may be facing one side.
Hesbon: Nekhukona bulayi.
Hesbon: And sleeping well.
Sindani: Okona busa bukwalale nolile mungaki. Hesbon: Nololile mungaki.
Sindani: You sleep calmly facing up. Hesbon: While facing up.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana, nenono.
Hesbon: Very well, and now.
Sindani: Loma busa omukuka khuli ano niyo khulayetana busa.
Sindani: Just say it elder we are here we shall help one another.
Hesbon: Khwaloma khulii.
Hesbon: We have said that.
Nenono ndeba ndii.
And now I ask that.
Babanadu babandu bachichangakho wakana bachile bayilile muu.*
People who burn in.*
Chindolio lola musiriba sia mwirobi endolio yecha yakwamo.
Like the bomb in Nairobi city.
Bandu bosi sabaya, babandu babaela abo babukusu bosi sababamo.
Were Bukusus among those people who perished?
Sindani: Babamo omukuka.
Sindani: they were among the elder.
Hesbon: Nono nga baela bario baya.
Hesbon: So when they burnt and perished.
Khwamanya khuriena, sakhwakhola kamasika kabwe.
How did we know when we held their funeral.
Sindani: Khwakhola omukuka.
Sindani: We did elder.
Hesbon: Khwamanya khuriena khuli bakonile bulayi namwe bubi?
Hesbon: How did we know they had slept well or bad?
Sindani: Omukuka abwenao nilio khulomile, efwe khucha busa ebweneyo mala khwabukula likokhe.
Sindani: Elder on that as we said, we just go to the place and take the ash.
Sima sibukusu simanyile sirio, khubukula busa likokhe.
I appreciate the Bukusu tradition knows that, we just take the ash.
Mala khwaba nga babandu khukhwangale libale enje khulotia.
And look like people who have a stone outside to bring home.
Aba sakhwalotisie omundu?
Shall we have taken a person home?
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Omukuka kamenako khukholanga khurio.
Sindani: Elder, that we do it that way.
Hesbon: Nakhunyolile omukuka, asanti sana. Sindani: Orio.
Hesbon: I have understood you elder, thank you very much. Sindani: Thank you.
Hesbon: Mbara baele ba sibukusu babele nebanyola kamakhuwa kenako kuka.
Hesbon: I think the Bukusu youths have gotten that information elder.
Nekali kamakhuwa kenganga mala kali kamakhuwa kalabayeta.
It is important information and it will help them.
Bamanyile bali lisubila lio omubukusu.
They know that the Bukusu belief.
Liloma lili welel aliyo lakini salicha tawe, bamanyile balii.
That says God is there but he will never come, they know that.
Lisubila lio omubukusu liloma lili nokhesia omukhwe luswa nilio mala luswa lwiranga lakini salwirira abwene tawe.
The Bukusu belief states that when you shake hands with your in-law it is a curse, and the curse kills but it doesn't kill on the spot.
Bamanyile bali lisubila lio omubukusu liloma lili.
They know that a Bukusu belief says that.
Nocha womukhwe wakhola sindu sibi aba olakhola oriena?
When you go to the in-law and do something bad, what will you do?
Olaba noela.
You will perish.
Lisubila liloma lili.
The belief says that.
Nabasikha omundu mala kakona bubi aba.
When they burry someone and the sleep wrongly, it will be.
Ekholo namwe lukoba lulakhola lurie?
The clan or family will do what?
Both: Lulaela.
Both: It will perish.
Hesbon: Asanti sana.
Hesbon: Thanks a lot.
Nono nenyile abele khuchekho khumekesio akandi.
Son I wanted that we go to other teachings.
Mala kamekesio kano kali kamaana sana.
This teachinga are very important.
Sikila ewewe becha bakhulanga bali Sindani.
They called you Sindani.
Becha bakhulanga bali Ngulukhi.
They called you Ngulukhi.
Ese bananga bali Sumba, becha bananga balii.
They called me Sumba and called me.
Bali Wandabwa.
Wandabwa.
Lekha kamasina kebarunda kano kabe.
Leave alone the white people names.
Nono nenyile winosiekhomo musibukusu.
So I wanted you to discuss it in Bukusu.
Lisina ngaa Makokha.
A name like Makokha.
Lisina nga Nyongesa.
A name like Nyongesa.
Kaliyo kamasina malala sakali kamasina niko otiukha.
There are some names you don't name.
Besikhasi ta.
Not women.
Nekalio kamasina malala sakali niko otiukha besisecha ta.
And there are some names you don't name men.
Lakini oli onyola kamasina malala batiukhile besisecha kamasina kabakhasi.
But you will find some women names named to men.
Batiukhile bakhasi kamasina kasisecha.
They have named women men names.
Nono ewe nenya umbolelekho khutiukha babana kamasina kano sina sibechanga.
So I want you to tell me the reason behind naming the children.
Namwe babukusu khulolelesiangamo nio khubatiukha khuli ewewelisina lio lili bali.
Or what do Bukusu consider before naming them.
Bali Barasa.
Like Barasa.
Ewewe lisina lio balii.
Your name is.
Nyongesa, nekamasina kano.
Nyongesa, and these names.
Kali nende sifune sina?
What importance do they have.
Sindani: Orio muno omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Sindani: Nga wakhaloma kamasina kano kali nesifune.
As you have said, these names have a meaning.
Aluno ari ese bandanga bali Sindani.
Like today the called me Sindani.
Hesbon: Eeh.
Hesbon: Eeh.
Sindani: Bananga lundi bali Ngulukhi. Hesbon: Akosi.
Sindani: They named me Ngulukhi again. Hesbon: There it is.
Sindani: Omukuka kamakhuwa kano kali nende sifuno.
Sindani: Elder these words have a meaning.
Okundi bamulanga bali Wekesa.
Another one was named Wekesa.
Okundi bali Khaemba.
Another one Khaemba.
Sindani: Okundi bali Wafula. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Another one Wafula. Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Kabisa. Sindani: Kamasina kano omubukusu kalanganga nesikila.
Hesbon: True. Sindani: These names, a Bukusu was naming it with a reason.
Sindani: Sina sikila sese nebananga bali Sindani.
Sindani: Why do they call me Sindani?
Kamasina kano kakhukhebusia.
These names reminds us.
Kakhukhebusia likhuwa nga nilio khulomilekho atayi aoo khuli.
They remind us a thing we said earlier that.
Khuli bandu bali, siliyo sisingilo nisio khulomile khuli bandu si?
That people are, there is a circumcision age set we said they which people.
Khulomile khulii.
We said that.
Both: Bakolongolo.
Both: The Bakolongolo.
Sindani: Mala nga khulomile khuli bakolongolo mala khwokesia abundu wenao, bandu bano bakolongola si?
Sindani: As we said the Bakolongolo, we discussed on that, what did these people collect.
Sina siecha siakolongola bandu?
What came and collected people?
Mala khwecha khwabona khuli liaba liye.
Ansd we came and realize it was war.
Lisina bali Sindani lino.
This name Sindani.
Enyala naaanakho busa bandu bamanye liasina nilio.
I can just explain people to understand its meaning.
Sindani lino omusungu niye wama khukila.
Sindani is a name that came because of a white person.
Fwabene bamali khwatiukhana khuli Sindani.
Blacks named ourselves Sindani.
Kwabao kumuchele bali sindani.
There was a type of rice known as sindani.
Kwabechanga kumutiti kuri nono kufwana nga esindani.
It was little and looked like a needle.
Nono yaba omukharund nakemile ao.
So when a white person is standing there.
Nesiboko.
With a cane.
Alapanga omumali ali biala ali biala biala.
He would be caning a black person to keep plantig.
Hesbon: Neyuno amureba ali mbiale si? Sindani: Nono mala, mbiale si?
Hesbon: This one will ask him what he should plant? Sindani: And then, what should I plant?
Sindani: Yaba mbo khachele khenakho sakhali khabalayi ta khanyelele.
Sindani: That rice was not wide, it was thin.
Nono bandu babona bali khafwana nga khanyelele ngaa.
So people thought it was a thin as.
Both: Nga esindani.
Both: Like a neddle.
Nebaloma bali ta.
They then decided.
Aba khachele khano bali sindani, nono babandu bebulwa eselukho yanyolekhana bise bienebio.
This rice will be known as sindani, so all people who were born that time.
Yaba bali bakilanga bali Sindani.
They were called Sindani.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Enyala yaba omwana kebulwanga.
Sindani: A child may be born.
Omundu kebulanga babana nebfwa.
A person gives birth to children and they die.
Omundu kebula abana nebafwa.
Aperson gives birth to children and they die.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Nakelao.
Sindani: They later.
Kebula okundi namenya.
Gives birth to another one who survives.
Nomukuka omwenoyu bamulanga bali nanu?
Elder, what do they call that one.
Hesbon: Bali Makokha.
Hesbon: They call him Makokha.
Sindani: Omwenoyu bali Makokha.
Sindani: That one is named Makokha.
Hesbon: Makokha omwenoyu abechanga omwana omuboelela.
Hesbon: Makokha is a child who survived death.
Sindani: Omwana omuboelela.
Sindani: A child who survived death.
Sindani: Omuboelela niye okhola arie omukuka kamakhomo lundi. Hesbon: Yaani omwana omuboelela.
Sindani: Elder explain about the child who survives death, what does the child do? Hesbon: This child who survives death.
Hesbon: Kekesienanga.
Hesbon: It shows.
Babandu bano khwama nga babeyisiana bamenyile kimiaka kino bakhanyolakho omwana ta, banyolanga omwana, afwaa banyola omwana afwa.
These people had not had a child since marriage, they get children but they die.
Afwaa banyola omwana afawa.
They get child a child but they die.
Nono yuno biliyo kimilukha nikio bakholanga, omwana Makokha yuno bakholanga kimilukha kiliyo.
So there are rituals they perform on this child Makokha.
Nebamuwa kamasuswa nomwana yuno alama.
They give the child the herbs to survive.
Nomwana yuno akhula.
This child grows.
Nono omwana yuno nakakhakhula omwana mwomoyu bamutiukhanga bali Makokha.
So when this child grows, they are named Makokha.
Sindani: Bali Makokha.
Sindani: Named Makokha.
Hesbon: Eeh sikila omwana omuboelela.
Hesbon: Because it is a survival child.
Sindani: Lomakho khuwangila nenangila khubone.
Sindani: Talk about Wangila and Nangila we see.
Hesbon: Wangila.
Hesbon: Wangila.
Nende Nangila, Wangila ali omwana wa sisecha.
And Nangila, Wangila is a male child.
Wakana niko welomele omulosi ali asiro nacha wae?
Maybe as you said, the woman would be pregnant and go where?
Acha emechi.
Goes to the river.
Nga kakhola emechi ketiukhe kataa kamechi kano.
While putting the water on the head after fetching.
Kara khatomolo akho khumurwe oyosina kecha polepole akenda akenda oli.
She puts the bucket on head and walk slowly back.
Kola khungila busa pewe.
When she reaches the road.
Kamakhuwa akosi kakhaya.
Things get complicated.
Sindani: Nabone omukuka. Hesbon: Omwana nga kamakhuwa nga kakhaya lola bise biola.
Sindani: I have seen it elder. Hesbon: When the child is about to come.
Omulosi kerusiakho.
The woman will deliver.
Kerusiriekho waena bali eyi omulosi yuno kerusiriekho wae?
She delivered from where? They will wonder where the woman delivered from.
Omulosi oyo kerusiriekho khungila, nono omwana yuno nono nisio balakhola.
The woman delivered from the road, so what they will do to the child.
Omwana yuno.
This child.
Baaminga bali aba laba omukendani.
They believe that they love walking.
Bali alakenda sana, nabamuyila bali ta, omwana yuno nisio khulakhola khulamurakho lisina bali nanu?
That they will walk much, they decide to name them.
Hesbon: Bali Wangila. Sindani: Wangila.
Hesbon: That Wangila. Sindani: Wangila.
Both: Nali omukhana balange bali sinanu?
Both: If it is a girl they call her who?
Both: Bali Nangila.
Both: Nangila.
Hesbon: Nali omukhana balome bali nanu? Bali nangila, wabone, kalaba kariokario.
Hesbon: If it is a girl, she will be named? Nangila and that is how it will be like.
Sindani: Lomakho khwisna Okumu lino khubone.
Sindani: Talk about this name Okumu.
Hesbon: Malaa omusakhulu mukolio, Okumu lino.
Hesbon: Old man, this name Okumu.
Khalinyola bulaayi ta wakana ewe wanjinosiakhomo.
I haven't gotten it well maybe if you can explain it to me.
Kabili kataru nakhuelewa bulayi, okumu lino libechanga lisina.
One two three for me to understnad you well, Okumu is usually a name.
Libechanga nasifune sina?
It has what meaning?
Mbulilanga bandu bali Okumu.
I hear that Okumu.
Mala Okumu libechanga bali Okumu nende Akumu ta?
And there is Omuku and Akumu, right?
Sindani: Subila.
Sindani: I believe.
Hesbon: Eeh nono Akumu omukhana.
Hesbon: Eeh so Akumu is a girl.
Okumu omusoleli, nono khanyola abwenao buterefu bwe lisina lieneli ta.
Okumu is a boy, so I haven't gotten a clear clarification about that name.
Mala wakhakhola bulayi sana wandeba.
You have done well to ask me.
Lakini kumupira ndalosia busa aba khuwamwene.
But I will take the ball back to you.
Malaa.
Then.
Khulondekhanang noo.
According to.
Wakhaba nokenda ano nende ano.
How you have walked here and there.
Onyala khuba wanyolakho wakana bubwenosio.
Maybe you got some information.
Wakhubolelakho lisina lino limelelanga sinanu?
And tell us what this name means.
Sindani: Okumu yuno mba khumunyola bulayi ta.
Sindani: I haven't understood the name Okumu well.
Nekhali ndachilila nende bumenielesi.
However I will continue with the research.
Manye Okumu yuno.
To know this Okumu.
Okumu yuno nende Makokha.
This Okumu and Makokha.
Sina siakholekha akari wabwe.
What happened between them.
Sikila Makokha yuno muli omuboelela niye.
Because you say Makokha is a survivor child.
No Okumu naye?
What about Okumu?
Sesubila ndii.
I don't believe that.
Bubwaukhani bubofu buliyo akari we bandu babili ababo ta.
There is a big difference between those two people.
Enyala yaba busa mbo khukhwaukhana khuli busa akekhe.
The difference could be so little.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Nono khulachilila ne bumenielesi khumanye Okumu yuno bamulanga bali Okumu namwe Akumu.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: So we shall continue with research to know whether they call them Okumu or Akumu.
Sindani: Khubela si?
Sindani: Why?
Hesbon: Kabisa.
Hesbon: Very well.
Nono esese ndecha khwisina liase lino.
So I will come to my name.
Lisina bali Sumba lino.
The name Sumba.
Sindani: Bali Sumba.
Sindani: The name Sumba.
Sumba sikila sawabeya namwe wakhola orie?
Sumba because you didn't marry or what did you do?
Hesbon: Abwenao niyo bandu babechanga nende wasiwasi sana nende lisina lieneli, baba nende burengi.
Hesbon: There is where people become worried and fear.
Sumba lino salili nga bakanakane bali omundu okhabeya namwe tawe.
Sumba is not a bachelor as people think.
Kuka wase nende kukhuu.
My grandfather and grandmother.
Basalanga bakhana, basala bana bakhana bakhana.
They gave birth to only girls.
Sindani: Orio. Hesbon: Mala bandu bauka bali bana bakhana bano.
Sindani: Thank you. Hesbon: And people wondered, these female children.
Hesbon: Sikila nolasalanga busa babana bakhana noli nende kimiandubusa kimikali wowee.
Hesbon: "Why are you just giveing birt to girls yet you have a lot of wealth"
Nanu olanyola kimiandu kino?
Who will get this wealth?
Naba omundu kecha.
And a person came.
Naba abolela kuka ali nisio khulakhola.
And told grandfather that, "what we shall do"
Naba bamubolela bali.
They told him.
Kukhu omukhasi woo yuno nekakhanyola enda, nono aba sali kukhu wase nekakhanyola enda.
His wife, my grandmother now, when she gets pregnant.
Olakhola oriena.
"What will you do"
Balola omundu khwama khunyanja Waluke namwe Walule.
They looked for someone from Waluke or Walule ocean.
Nga babukula omundu yuno naba kukhu sanyola sisombo.
As they took this person, my grandmother got pregnant.
Naba babukula omundu yuno acha khunyanja eyeyo.
They took this person to that ocean.
Nga kola khunyanja eyeyo.
When he got the ocean.
Naba alanga embusi.
He called the goat.
Eliyo embusi khukhwama mumechi.
There is a goat from the water.
Embusi yino bakilanga bali.
This goat was called.
Embusi ng'eneyo bakilanga bali Sumba.
The goat was called Sumba.
Nga bola ano nomundu yuno alanga nakhola kamasuswa kewe nembusi yino yama mumechi.
When they reached there, this person used his traditional herbs and called this goat that came from the water.
Both: Neyicha.
Both: It came.
Hesbon: Mala embusi yino omundu okundi akhakibonakho ta nekakhali bano bong'ene bakibona.
Hesbon: And this goat had never been seen by any other perdon other than these ones.
Sindani: Silo namwe kumusi?
Sindani: At night or during the day?
Hesbon: Embusi eyo yechaa.
Hesbon: This goat came.
Musilo.
At night.
Sindani: Hahaha.
Sindani: Hahaha.
Hesbon: Nga yecha silo.
Hesbon: When it came at night.
Naba babolela omusakhulu Sebastiano bali nono.
They told old man Sebastaiano that.
Bukula omulosi woo kekhale khumbusi yino.
Take your wife to seat on the goat.
Nekekhala khumbusi eyeyo.
She sat on that goat.
Kekhala khumbusi eyeyo yamumema mala kakendakho naye khunyanja okhwokhwo naba kekha nebabolela embusi eyo bali khola oriena.
She sat on the goat which carried her alongside the ocean then she came down, they the told the goat to do what?
Kobola mumechi.
Go back in the water.
Neyila mumechi.
It went back to the water.
Nga yela mumechi nebano beecha.
When it went back to the water, these ones came.
Nga becha naba omundu yuno abolela omusakhulu Sebastiano ali.
When they came, this person told the old man Sebastiano that.
Omwana niye khocha khwibula alaba omusoleli.
"The child you are going to sire is going to be a boy"
Mala omwana yuno olakhola oriena.
"And what will you do with this child"
Olamutiukha lisina bali nanu, bali Sumba.
You will name him Sumba.
Nono esese.
So, I.
Papa wase.
My father.
Niyee bali Sumba.
Is the one called Sumba.
Ne Sumba.
And Sumba.
Sikila abanga bali kaba omusumba andi ese sendiyo ta.
If he wa a bachelor, I will not be there.
Sindani: Nabone.
Sindani: I see.
Hesbon: Eeh nono.
Hesbon: Eeh so.
Lisina lino likabukhana nende kamasina akandi kano.
The name is different from other names.
Ewewe nono khukhwama khuu.
So from.
Khuswa khusayi.
At the moment.
Wanyolile.
You have gotten.
Limanya mbo.
Knowledge that.
Sumba liase lino selili nilio balanganga babandu bakhabeya elielio tawe.
My name Sumba is not what the call the bachelors.
Sindani: Nabone.
Sindani: I have seen.
Hesbon: Sumba lino lini lili lio omundu.
Hesbon: Sumba is for a person.
Khukhwama munyanja.
Who comes from the ocean.
Nelili lisina lia chikhabi.
It is blessings name.
Hesbon: Wabone? Sindani: Nabone omukuka.
Hesbon: Yuou see? Sindani: I have seen elder.
Hesbon: Mmh, selili busa lisinaa.
Hesbon: Mmh it is not just a name.
Nilio bandu babechanga busa nalio tawe.
That common people have.
Mbara abwenao waelewile lisina liase lino, nee.
I think you have understood the name there.
Lola wakhaloma lisina olii, olomilekho oli ewe bakhulanga bali Ngulukhi.
You said they call you Ngulukhi.
Sindani: Ngulukhi lino. Hesbon: Ngulukhi lino nalio lili nendee.
Sindani: This name Ngulukhi. Hesbon: What does Ngulukhi has what.
Hesbon: Namwe khwinoleselekhomo limelela sinanu namwee.
Hesbon: Explain to us what it means or.
Sindani: Ngulukhi yuno. Hesbon: Liecha lirie.
Sindani: This Ngulukhi. Hesbon: How did it come?
Sindani: Ngulukhi yino engulukho niyo.
Sindani: Ngulukhi is a season.
Omundu niye balanga bali Ngulukhi yuno.
A person named Ngulukhi.
Ali omundu oyuyukhana.
Is a person who is active.
Ali omundu obelela bwangu.
Is a person who gets annoyed very fast.
Sindani: Bali akulukhanga, nebamurakho bali nanu? Both: Bali Ngulukhi.
Sindani: They say he is fast, and the name him who? Both: Ngulukhi.
Sindani: Wabone, sali omundu omwikhalilikhi ta.
Sindani: You see, he is not a patient person.
Akulukha kulukhanga busa,lakini nono samwene sendi endo ta, ese omwekhalilikhi.
He makes rushed decisions, but I am not the same, I am a patient person.
Lisina busa lakini samwene sengulukhanga ta.
It is just a name but I don't rush myself.
Hesbon: Hahaha abwenao nakhunyolile tu, lakini.
Hesbon: Hahaha I get you on that though.
Buli bulayi mbo nee khwicha lundi kamakhuwa ke kamasina kano.
It is okay and when we come to name conerns again.
Baliyo bandu balala sababechanga bandu balayi ta.
There were some people who were not good.
Babana befwe, khubatiukhe kamasina kebabandu bano namwe kimima, nono lola ewe wakhaloma olii.
Do we name our children these peoples names, you have said that.
Nga ewe bakhutiukha bali Ngulukhi lakini sokulukhanga ta.
They named you Ngulukhi but you don't rush.
Nembonanga bali omuundu.
I see that a person.
Wekhonya omwene.
Who killed themselves.
Senyekhana watiukha lisina elio omwana woo ta.
You are not supposed to name your child that name.
Omundu wabechanga nende kukwima kwelifwi.
A person who was a thief.
Hesbon: Seenyekhana watiukha omwana woo ta, khukhola khuriena abwenao musakhulu? Sindani: Omukuka abwenao khwanjile mala sakhwenosisieo bulayi ta.
Hesbon: You are not supposed to name your child, what do we do on that elder? Sindani: Elder we started on that but we didn't explain it well.
Hesbon: Eeh Sindani: Sali busa buli obira khunya khwamutiukha tawe.
Hesbon: Eeh. Sindani: We can't just name everyone.
Sindani: Ewewe wakana waba papa wange.
Sindani: Maybe you were my father.
Mala wafwa lifwa lia maraba.
And you died a bad death.
Wafwa nosili omukekhe.
You died while still young.
Omukuka sekhutiukha tawe.
Elder, I cannot name you.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Sekhutiukha tawe, khubela sinanu? Balomanga bali, Tondo wafwa. Both: Tondo wakobola.
Sindani: I don't name you, why? because theys say. Tondo died. Both: Tondo came back.
Sindani: Onyala wakobolela mumwana wange.
Sindani: You come back through my child.
Nakhusima wafwa lakini wafwa lifwa lia maraba.
I loved you but you died a bad death.
Omukuka khulekha busa khurio wacha khurio.
Elder we just leave you to go that way.
Omanye khutiukha khuno, kamasina kano, ebechanga mbo khuli khakhukhebulila.
You know naming these names it shows that we are remebering you.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Nono engila yoo yekhufwa yaukhane.
Sindani: So your dying way is different.
Wafwile nosili omukekhe.
You have died while you are still young.
Wafwile lifwa lia maraba namwe wamwene wekhonyile, omukuka abwenao khukhulekha busa wacha orio khwakhwibilila nga nomile.
You have died a bad dead or killed yourself, elder on that we leave you to go and we forget about you like I said.
Bakhusikha bali ba.
Those who burry you are the.
Bali bakulo nibo bakhusikha ewe khukhwibilila khukhusikha ata muluchi eyo khundolo khwe kukukunda sakhukhwenya lundi tawe.
The frenemies are the ones who burry you at the river or at the land boarder because we don't want you again.
Khukhulekha busa khurio.
We leave you that way.
Hesbon: Nee mbulilanga bali bandu bano nokhabatiukhile ta.
Hesbon: I hear that when you don't name these people.
Banyala becha banja khukhonyaka abana.
They can come and start killing the children.
Buli bung'aali namwe kano kamakhuwa busa ke babandu be kunywanywa.
Is it true or just information from gossip people.
Sindani: Omukuka omundu wafwa khale.
Sindani: Elder, a person who died long ago.
Mala sakafwa lifwa lia maraba ta.
And he didn't die a bad death.
Omulebe woo niye, papa woo niye, khocha woo niye, ali nende bung'ali omutiukhe.
They are your relative, it is your father or your uncle has a right to be named.
Obonanga omwana nakebulwe bali omwana kalobile lisina.
You when a child is born and they claim the child has refused the name.
Bali omwana khane kakholile arien lisina.
That the child has done something concerning the name.
Sindani: Wabone omukuka nga khulomile lisubila lio omubukusu asubila ali omundu safwichanga ta. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: You see elder, as we said a Bukusu believes that a person doesn't die. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Arurangao busa kumubili lakini kachile khuulukha.
Sindani: They just leave bodywise but the go to rest.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Nono omundu mwonoyu nachile khuulukha kenya khumukhebulile.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: So when such a person goes to rest, they want us to remember them.
Sindani: Khulomile khuli ali nende bunyali.
Sindani: We said they have the right.
Bwakhwicha mwimenya liefwe lino, konake namwe ayete bindu.
To come in our lives to destroy to help with things.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Nabwila buli bung'ali mbo omundu yuno kang'ali kafwa lakini akobola nanania.
Sindani: That is why it is true this person dies but the come back to disturb.
Both: Babandu basimenyile.
Both: People who are still living.
Sindani: Mala basimenyile bano banyala baba babana batiti.
Sindani: The ones still living could be small children.
Nono buli bung'ali mbo kang'ali.
So it is true that.
Bananianga, omukuka.
They disturb, elder.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Nee.
And.
Kamakhuwa mboo.
Matters that.
Lilio lisina alindi abele nebilile.
There is another name I had forgotten.
Mala nenya umbolelekho lisina bali Nyongesa.
I want you to tell about the name Nyongesa.
Ese ndi nende senge wase, Nyongesa nge nekhumanyile kamasina kebasecha.
I have my aunt, Nyongesa as we know they are male names.
Sakhumanyile khurio.
Is that how we know?
Sindani: Khumanyile khurio.
Sindani: We know that way elder.
Hesbon: Mala ese ndi nende senge wase.
Hesbon: I have my aunt.
Bali Nyongesa.
Called Nyongesa.
Lakini nono nakhaka khumenelesiamo, menyelesiemo manye, aah nekhubela sina?
I tried to find out why.
Senge wase yuno nebamutiukha bali Nyongesa.
Why the called my aunt Nyongesa.
Lakini mbo khunyola likobosio ta.
But I haven't gotten the answer.
Musakhulu saunjinosiamo abwenao namanya kamakhuwa kano kacha karie?
Elder, explain to me about it in order to understand.
Sindani: Omukuka subila ndi Nyongesa yuno.
Sindani: Elder, I believe that this Nyongesa.
Nyongesa yuno.
This Nyongesa.
Yaba khale selinga aluno ari ta batiukhana busa.
Long ago, its not like today they just name each other.
Yaba khale.
Long ago.
Bele omundu nakakhacha kabele omukhulu.
When a person matured.
Ouka oli mayi kabirire khulome khuli sakekhebukha ta.
A mother has matured, let us say she can't have her monthly period.
Mayi mwonoyu khubona khuli sali nende bunyali bwekhwibula omwana ta.
That mother we see that she has to power to have a child.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Naba busa mubukofu bwewe obwobwo kecha kebula omwana.
Sindani: She then gives birth at her old age.
Omwana mwonoyu khwamulanganga khuli Nyongesa.
We called that child Nyongesa.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Orio omukuka.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Asanti, abwenao nakhunyolile.
Hesbon: Thank you, I have understood you on that.
Nasimile khunjinosiamo lisina lieneli.
Thank you for explaining to me about that name.
Nesubila ndi khuli khakhuendele bulayi omukosi.
I believe we are proceeding well friend.
Nee.
And.
Mbelekho nende sititi siri nisio nenyile unjinosiekhomo kidogo.
I had something small I needed you to explain to me briefly.
Khulondekhana nende kamasina kano.
Basing on these names.
Ne nono omwana yuno nekhomiukha lisina sabechanga amanyile khulomaloma ta.
The child is named when they don't know how to talk.
Khulamanya khuriena khuli omwana yuno kalobile lisina lino?
How shall we know the child has refused this name?
Nakhulamanya khuriena khuli omwana yuno kafukilile lisina lino?
How shall we know the child has accepted this name?
Sindani: Nga nomilekho atayi ao.
Sindani: As I said back there.
Omubukusu amanyile omundu afwichanga nesafwila elala ta.
A Bukusu knows person dies but doesn't die forever.
Omwana nafukilile lisina wamutiukhile oli Sumba.
When a child accepts the named you have named him Sumba.
Nomwana yuno nalobile lisina lino alachilila khulila.
When this child refuses this name he will continue to cry.
Namwe ata alwale.
Or even become sick.
Omanya oli omwana yuno kalobile lisina elio.
You will know this child has refused that name.
Khokhukhakekho lundi elindi.
We should try another one.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Wakana omwana sakasimile omundu niyo wamutiukha ta.
Sindani: Maybe the child doesn't love the person you have named them.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Namwe nga aluno ari.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: Like its nowadays.
Sindani: Bandu beskhasi bali nekamakhuwa.
Sindani: Women have issues.
Kebachakho newe sawamanyile oli omwana yuno sali woo ta.
She would have cheated on you without your kowledge and you don't know the child is not yours.
Sindani: Wabone kuka. Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Sindani: You see it elder. Hesbon: Very well.
Hesbon: Khekhunyola.
Hesbon: I am getting you.
Sindani: Nono ewe olamutiukhanga mungo nekalobile mungo mwonomu.
Sindani: You will be naming them from home and they will be refusing the home.
Kimisambwa kiewabwe kimi.*
The spirits from their family.
Bamakombe bewabwe balobile.
The ancestors from their family have refused.
Nono olabonanga busa omwana alila ang'aa akhola ariena khane kalobile lisina lienelio.
You will be seeing the child cry, slim and other things yet they will have refused that name.
Omwana khuloba olabona nalila.
The child refusing, you will see them cry.
Buli khase ali nende lutoro namwe khulome khuli lung'eng'e.
They will be crying most of the time.
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: Wabone omukuka.
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: You see elder.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Abwenao niyo khumanyila khuli omwana kalobile lisina lino.
Sindani: That is how we know the child has refused the name.
Rebakho lundi omukuka.
Ask again elder.
Hesbon: Abwenao nakhunyolile.
Hesbon: I have gotten you on that.
Nee.
And.
Chingila chiliyo chingali nicho onyala wamanyilamo oli omwana yuno kalobile lisina, wakhabolakho olii.
There many ways you can tell that the child has refused the name, you have said that.
Hesbon: Oli khulila. Sindani: Khulwala.
Hesbon: To cry. Sindani: To get sick.
Sindani: Khulwala. Hesbon: Khulwalilila.
Sindani: Getting sick. Hesbon: To get sick regularly.
Sindani: Ata anyala karuraka busa kumubili.
Sindani: They can develop body rashes.
Hesbon: Mmh, nee.
Hesbon: Mmh and.
Ne sibukusu nekhwenya khutiukha omwana lisinaa.
According to Bukusu when we want to name a child.
Khukhola khuriena.
What do we do?
Nakhwenya nono nga sayi nono omwana kebulwa khwenya khumutiukhe lisina.
Like now when a child has been born and we want to name them.
Khukholakhoo.
What do we.
Milukha sina?
What rituals?
Sindani: Omukuka sesubila ndi kimilukha kiabao kimikali abwenao ta.
I don't think there were many rituals there.
Bele omwana nakekhebulwa.
When the child was born.
Khuwelesia mawe, aah kukhuwe.
We give it to the grandmother.
Kukhuwe yomwana.
The child's grandmother.
Niye olabeka omwana.
She is the one who will shave the child.
Niye olawelesia omwana lisina.
She is the one who will name the child.
Amulange ali ewewe bali.
She will call them.
Nabulebe.
So and so.
Namwe kukhuwe alamubeka lakini kukawe naye anyala kamulanga lisina.
The grandmother could shave them but the grandfather could name them.
Namwe, seli nende kamalaka kamakali abwenao ta.
There are no many rules on that.
Waulile omukuka?
Have you heard elder?
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Wakhenosiakhomo abwenao mala waa.*
You have explained on that and.
Libasio liechakho mumurwe mwase.
A certain thought has come in my head.
Eeh sindu siakhaba nesicha mumurwe mwase.
The thing that came in my head.
Siecha sia naba nganakana likhuwa fulani.
I was thinking about a certain issue.
Liloma lili.
That goes like.
Babana bano.
These children.
Nekhwakhabatiukha kamasina kano.
After naming them these names.
Khwenyena khukholekho sina sisindi?
What else should we do?
Sindani: Omukuka ndakhwisiakho enyuma lundi.
Sindani: Elder I will take you back again.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Khubalile busa kamasina kano.
Sindani: We just counted these names.
Mala khwalekhile abundu aandi.
But we have left another issue.
Khukhoye khukhebulile likhuwa lilala khuli.
We should remenber one one word that.
Khukhoye khukhebulile likhuwa lilala khuli kamasina kano.
We should remember one thing that these names.
Lundi kosi kabechanga nende bise fulani.
They also had a given time..
Omwana anyala kebulwa bise nibio efula eli khekwa engali saana.
A child may be born the time when it is rainning heavily.
Okundi kebulwe.
Another one will be born.
Bise nibio.
Time when.
Kumumu khakufwa kumukali saana efula selikho ta.
Time when it will be extremely sunny with no rain.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Okundi kebulwe.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: Another one will be born.
Sindani: Baikhulia bilikho muli khamukesa.
Sindani: While you are harvesting.
Okundi naye kebulwe munjala.
Another will be born during hunger.
Hesbon: Bulayi kabisa.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Wabone omukuka, nga wibulwe munjala khumulanga khuli Nanjala namwe Wanjala.
Sindani: You see elder, whoever is born during hunger time we call them Nanjala or Wanjala.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Okundi khumulange khuli Wafula namwe Nafula.
Sindani: Another one we will call them Nafula or Wafula.
Hesbon: Omweneyi aba wamufula.
Hesbon: That one will be born in rainy season.
Sindani: Aba wamufula, Wekesa namwe Nekesa.
Sindani: From the rainy season, Wekesa or Nekesa.
Hesbon: Omwonoyu welikesa?
Hesbon: That one from the harvesting?
Sindani: Okundi naye kebulwe bali khabaka khumulanga khuli Wanyonyi.
Sindani: Another will be born while cultivating, we shall call them Wanyonyi.
Nono nali omusoleli.
If it a boy.
Wabone omukuka.
You get it elder?
Wanyonyi khwama khunyonyi, enyonyi yemukunda.
Wayonyi from the farm weed.
Hesbon: Aosi.
Hesbon: There it is.
Sindani: Wabone omukuka.
Sindani: You see it elder.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Biosi biechanga nende bise.
Sindani: They came with seasons.
Hesbon: Nenasimiyu, aba niye wamusimiyu ta. Sindani: Wamusimiyu omwene.
Hesbon: And Nasimiyu is from the drought? Sindani: Yes from the drought.
Namwe Simiyu.
Or Simiyu.
Bulayi sana.
Very well.
Hesbon: Eeh Sindani: Nono bwila oreba oli.
Hesbon: Eeh. Sindani: You were asking that.
Hesbon: Nakhwakhatiukha babana banoo.
Hesbon: After naming these children.
Sindani: Khubakholele sina?
Sindani: What do we do we them.
Hesbon: Eeh.
Hesbon: Eeh.
Sindani: Omukuka likhuwa lilindi liekhubakholela salilikhoo tawe.
Sindani: Elder there is no other thing to do to them.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Nekhwakhakhulanga khuli Simiyu orama busa orio.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: When we name you Simiyu, you remain that way.
Hesbon: Nakhwakhakhulanga oli Wafula.
Hesbon: If we call you Wafula.
Hesbon: Orama busa orio. Sindani: Oba busa Wafula oba busa Wafula orio.
Hesbon: You remain that way. Sindani: You just remain Wafula.
Hesbon: Nakhwakhulanga khuli Wekesa, oba busa Wekesa. Sindani: Oba busa Wekesa.
Hesbon: If we call you Wekesa, you just remain Wekesa. Sindani: You just remain Wekesa.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Nekhali nono aandi khukhakanga khuloma khuli.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: But in other ways we try to say that.
Sindani: Kuka woo wakana bamulanganga bali Wafula.
Sindani: Maybe your grandfather was called Wafula.
Wafula bakho busa nakimima kimilayi nga.
"Wafula have good manners like"
Both: Nga lia kukao. Sindani: Khuli khakhukambila busa.
Both: Like those of your grandfather. Sindani: We are just teaching you.
Sobakho busa nga sengewo niye khwakhutiukha oyo.
Can't you be like you aunt we named you after her.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Wabone omukuka.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: You see that elder.
Hesbon: Abwenao nakhunyolile. Sindani: Kabechanga busa kario omukuka.
Hesbon: I get you on that. Sindani: It is always that way elder.
Hesbon: Nono.
Hesbon: So.
Kamakhuwa kakenako khumanyile khuli kabechangao.
We know those matters are there.
Alafuu eeh.
And then.
Khumanyile khuli sibala siosi sasili siefwe ta.
We know the world is also not ours.
Khumanyile khuli efwe khukenda busa khusibala khuno tu.
We know we are just walking on this world.
Nono.
So.
Eeh khukhole khuriena.
What should we do.
Niokhumanyee.
In order to know.
Nga khunyala khwayeta bandu befwe bano.
How we can help our people.
Elubeka wekamasina.
On the issues of names.
Sindani: Omukuka.
Sindani: Elder.
Sili busa khumukharunda.
I am still on the white person.
Simukunyilila busa.
I am still insisting.
Simupa busa emurwe eyo khubela omurende niye.
I am still knocking on their head because they are strangers.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Omukharunda yuno.
Sindani: This white person.
Ese nerebanga ndio.
I ask myself this.
Niye kecha muno nelisina bamulanga bali John.
He comes here with a name called John.
Newewe.
And you.
Wesi obukula lisina eliolio werakho.
You take that name and name yourself.
Niye kecha muno nalisina bali Mary.
She comes here with the name Mary.
Newe obukula lisina elio werakho.
You take that name and name yourself.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Nerebanga nandi mungila ekindi khweleka.
Sindani: I ask myself in another way we look down on ourselves.
Hesbon: Ehe.
Hesbon: Ehe.
Sindani: Sikila naye akhelangakho ali Wekesa namwe Nafula sili si?
What is the reason they can't call themselves Wekesa or Nafula?
Sikila naye akhelangakho ali Anyango sili si?
What is the reason they can't call themselves Anyango?
Nabwila niye kenya busa kelange bali niye bali Paul.
He just want to call himself Paul.
Nekola muno.
When he arrives here.
Efwe fwesi khwilanga khuli Paul.
We all call ourselves Paul.
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: Lakini salomakho ali yuno bali Sindani sesi khenelangekho nandi Sindani.
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: But he can't say this one is called Sindani, let me also call myself Sindani.
Sindani: Omukharunda sakana ario ta.
Sindani: A white person doesn't want it that way.
Sindani: Nono mungila ekindi. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: So in another way. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Ese ndalomanga ndi buno buli buruki nibwo barakhurukanga.
Sindani: I am saying this the ruling they are ruling us.
Sindani: Bachililila khukhuruka mala sakhwamanyile ta. Hesbon: Eeh.
Sindani: They continue to rule us and we don't know. Hesbon: Eeh.
Hesbon: Yeah.
Hesbon: Yeah.
Sindani: Bosi babule kamasina kabwe.
Sindani: They should also reveal their names.
Nebenya khubukulekho kakabwe kano khubeseleyo.
If they want we can take back their names.
Nga ewe bakhulanga khuli Hesbon, khubeseleyo kamasina kabwe kano.
Like they call you Hesbon, we should return their names.
Bosi kabali benya fwesi khubone omusungu mulala bamulange bali Sumba.
If they also want, we want to see ine white person named Sumba.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Okundi yesi bamulangekho bali Ngulukhi.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: Another one to be called Ngulukhi.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Nekhumanya khuli aba mungila ekindi.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: We will know that in another way.
Sindani: Khwatekane sikila mumoni chakhakaba.
Sindani: We shall be the same because in God the givers eyes.
Sindani: Khwakana busa. Hesbon: Khwakanilila busa.
Sindani: We are the same. Hesbon: We are just the same.
Sindani: Nono nenyile khubolela babana babukusu nandi.
Sindani: So I wanted to tell Bukusu children that.
Kamasina kebabandu kano bona lelo serikali yakhulekhula.
These people's names, like nowadays the government gave us the freedom.
Khuli nende bulekhule khunyala khwarumikhila kamasina kefwe kong'ene.
We have the freedom to only use our names.
Bana befwe nebuchukhulu becha chindalo echi.
Our children and our grandchildren that are coming in future days.
Kamasina kamasungu kano balekhane nako.
They should drop these English names.
Hesbon: Sikila nakhecha nanyola ndi.
Hesbon: Because I found that.
Babukusu bakali balarichanga khurumikhila kamasina kabwe.
Many Bukusus are scared to use their names.
Lakini.
But.
Kuliyo kusalae kwase okundi.
There is another friend of mine.
Kulii.
Who is.
Musirimba siaa.
In the a country.
Siamwamerika.
In America.
Kwelanganga busa kamasina kasibukusu kong'ene.
He calls himself Bukusu names only.
Mmh.
Mmh.
Lakini lola efwe.
But look at us.
Muno khwenya khwelnage kamasina kebarunda bano mala bakhumisie muchisuku chingali.
Here we want to call ourselves these white people's names yet they have mistreated us for a long time.
Nono nenyile obolelekho baluya.
So I wanted you to tell Luhyas.
Babukusu befwe bano oli bakhole bariena.
What should our Bukusu do.
Khumakhuwa kekamasika kano.
On the names matters.
Nekhuchilile khumekesio kakandi.
For us to proceed to other teachings.
Sindani: Omukuka nasima bele omundu mulala bali Jomo Kenyatta.
Sindani: I loved one person named Jomo Kenyatta.
Nama khwicha lundi nasima omundu okundi oandika bitbu bino nali Ngugi wa Thiong'o.
I came and loved this other person who writes books known as Ngugi wa Thiong'o.
Namakhwicha nasima omundi okundi bali Makhadi Makandi.
I loved another Indian called Makhadi Makandi.
Omuindi.
An Indian.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Nama khwicha nasima omundu ukundi bali nanu, bali Wamalwa Kijana.
Sindani: I loved another person known as Wamalwa Kijana.
Nekhali ndalomakho Kenyatta nende aba Ngugi wa Thiong'o oyoyo.
But I will talk about Kenyatta and Ngugi wa Thiong'o
Ngugi wa Thiong'o oyoyo kecha bamuwelesia lisisna lisungu.
They gave Ngungi wa Thiong'o an English name.
Wamakhwicha waliloba kewelesia.
He refused it and gave himself.
Kamasina kamamali kano.
These black names.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Jomo Kenyatta bama khwicha bamulanga bali Johnstone.
Sindani: They came and called Jomo Kenyartta Johnstone.
Wakaloba werakho kamamali kano.
He refused and gave himself the black names.
Nama khwicha nabona Wamalwa Kijana yesi wakaloba werakho.
I came saw Wamalwa Kijna also refusing and gave himself.
Jarmogi yesi waloba kamasungu akako kerakho kamajaluo kong'ene.
Jaramogi also refused the English ones and used only Luo ones.
Hesbon: Akosi kamanyolo. Sindani: Omukuka.
Hesbon: That is it, Luo names. Sindani: Elder.
Sindani: Sikhukhingilila nafwe efwe babukusu khuba nekamsina kefwe bali Wanyonyi Wepukhulu.
Sindani: What prevents us Bukusus to have our names like Wanyonyi Wepukhulu.
Sifuna Kurima.
Sifuna Kurima.
Hesbon: Wafula Wanyama.
Hesbon: Wafula Wanyama.
Sindani: Sindani: Wafula Wanyama. Hesbon: Nandutubi Chiri.
Sindani: Wafula Wanyama. Hesbon: Natutubi Chiri.
Sindani: Natutubi Chiri, omukuka sili si?
Sindani: Natutubi Chiri, elder what is it?
Hesbon: Semanya taa. Sindani: Khakhusime kamasina kefwe, kamasina khane bali Fred kano.
Hesbon: I don't know. Sindani: Let us love our names, these names like Fred.
Sindani: Onyola omundu ata okworwa Fred nisio sina nga efwe khukhacha esukuli ta.
Sindani: For us who didn't go to school, we don't know what Fred is.
Sakhumanya Fred ebulaya eyo eli embwa namwe sili sina.
We don't know whether Fred is a dog abroad or what.
Hesbon: Somanya ta, wakana ata pusi niyo. Sindani: Kuka khukhoya khusime kamasina kefwe kano noulila mbo Wafula.
Hesbon: You can't know maybe it is a cat. Sindani: We should love our names, when you here a name like Wafula.
Sindani: Omanya oli Wafula yuno aba ese nebulwa muchindalo chefwe.
Sindani: You know this Wafula was born at a particular time.
Hesbon: Kuka mala wambolele likhuwa lia. Sindani: Noulila bali Simiyu omanya oli siaba musimiyu nese salwa mbokha.
Hesbon: Elder, you have told me a word. Sindani: When you here Simiyu, know that I was born during drought.
Sindani: Lakini nono Fred aba yaba bise si?
Sindani: What season was Fred born?
Namwe sina siekholekha.
Or what happened.
Omukuka khuli mungila yakutibi.
Elder we are in a confused way.
Mala khulatima, khulatimimilila paka khuche khukwe muluchi khwikhe khurio.
And we shall get confused until we fall in the river and go that way.
Ata sibala sikhwibilile.
Even the world will forget us.
Hesbon: Asandi sana kuka.
Hesbon: Thanks a lot elder.
Wakhaba naumbolela kamakhuwa kamalayi sana, kamakhuwa kenganga nakasimile.
You have told me valuable information that I appreciate.
Ata nono khukhwama luno ari lisina ese nakha nee.
Even from today the name.
Nendekha kamasina kaa.
I have dropped the name.
Sindani: Okhoya okakalukhasie.
Sindani: You should change them.
Hesbon: Nakhaba nengalukhania kamasina kamarunda kano.
Hesbon: I changed this English names.
Nono khukhwama luno lisina lirunda ese nalirusisieo.
So from today I have removed my English name.
Khukhwama luno nono bananga busa bali Wandabwa wa Sumba.
From today they just call me Wandabwa son of Sumba.
Kamakhuwa kalisina lie barund lino ese sendienya ta.
I don't want the white people's name.
Asandi sana.
Thanks a lot.
Eeh musakhulu khumakhuwa kenako.
Elder on that information.
Eeh nenya khutimekho, khwekesianekho kamkhuwa kechinyimbo kano.
I want us to teach other matters concerning songs.
Chiliyo chinyimbo che babukusu chiliyo.
There are Bukusu songs that.
Chingalukhanie, chiliyo chinyimbo che babukusu.
Different ones, there are Bukus songs.
Nicho khwimbanga mubise.
Songs that we sing in ceremonies.
Bikalukhanie, chiliyo chinyimbo che babukusu.
Different ones, there are Bukusu songs.
Nicho chikila chireranga bandu alala namwe chiyilanga bandu atayi.
That bring people together or take them far.
Nono nenyile umbolelekho khuli nendee.
So I wanted you to tell, we have.
Chinyimboo.
Songs.
Chinga nachii.
How many that.
Bifune sina?
Which types?
Sindani: Orio muno omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Khundeba kamenako kosi.
To ask me all that.
Sakhulaluwa ta.
We will not get tired.
Khusiekesia busa baraka bano bamanye.
We are still teaching this youths to know.
Omukuka chinyimbo chino.
Ekder, these songs.
Sindani: Alinga khulomilekho anyumaa ao, chosi chili nende kamekesio, chikambila, chekesia. Hesbon: Mmh
Sindani: As we said back there, they also have teachings, they advise and they teach. Hesbon: Mmh
Sindani: Nechikeleka. Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Omubukusu arumikhila chinyimbo chino khusomia.
Sindani: They instruct. Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: A Bukusu uses these songs to teach.
Sindani: Chiliyo chinyimbo cha khusomia busa, chekhusomia busa. Hesbon: Chiliyo cha khusomia.
Sindani: There are songs just for teaching. Hesbon: They are just for teaching.
Sindani: Omusakhulu.
Sindani: Elder.
Omwana.
A child.
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: Omuraka.
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: A youth.
Sindani: Omukhasi.
Sindani: A woman
Omusecha.
A man.
Chinyimbo chino chekesianga chili akhole si?
These songs shows what they should do.
Sindani: Ewe noli mungo mwoo ewewe omukhasi. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: When your in your home as a woman. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Olaba busa omukhasi nafwofwoyo nabwe olaba omukhasi onyala warura waka.
Sindani: Will you be a lazy wife or one who can get outside and cultivate.
Sindani: Wabone omukuka? Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Sindani: Have you gotten it elder. Hesbon: Very well.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Olaba omukhasi aina si?
Sindani: What kind of a wife will you be?
Ewewe noili omusani nga khulomilekho.
If you are a man as we said.
Oli omusani materesi.
Are you a man without a stand in any family affair.
Oli omusanisani.
Are you just a weak man.
Sindani: Namwe oli omusani burwa nga okheyebwe obe. Hesbon: Omusani burwa.
Sindani: Or you a very harsh man like you are supposed to be. Hesbon: A very harsh man.
Sindani: Chinyimb chenecho chekesia chirio. Hesbon: Kabisa.
Sindani: Those songs show that. Hesbon: True.
Sindani: Nokhuli khakhucha nga liye.
Sindani: When we are going for war.
Chinyimbo chino.
These songs.
Hesbon: Chiliyo chinyimbo chekhwekesia, cha khusomia. Sindani: Siekhucha busa sa mbo khokhucha liye.
Hesbon: There are songs for teaching and educating. Sindani: Those for going for war.
Hesbon: Chiliyo chinyimbo cha mwiye.
Hesbon: There are war songs.
Hesbon: Taa? Sindani: Orio kuka.
Hesbon: Right? Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Chiliyo chinyimbo aba cha mumasika.
Hesbon: There are funeral songs.
Sindani: Chemumasika.
Sindani: Funeral songs.
Hesbon: Chiliyo chinyimbo cha khukesa.
Hesbon: There are harvesting songs.
Hesbon: Chiliyo chinyimbo chaa.
Hesbon: There are songs for.
Sindani: Chinyala chembwa abundu nga mung'anana.
Sindani: That can be sang in a dowry agreement ceremony.
Hesbon: Mung'anana, chinyimbo cha mung'anana.
Hesbon: Songs for dowry agreement ceremony.
Sindani: Eeh omukuka mukhalomanga muli bukhwe tawe.
Sindani: Eeh elder, you should not be saying private ceremony.
Hesbon: Oooh. Sindani: Bukhwe bubechanga atayi buli mungubo nobulomakho aba khobuloma bwasie.
Hesbon: Ooh. Sindani: Private is normally far in the clothes what would you want for you to talk about it.
Hesbon: Akosi. Sindani: Mbo khuchilenge bukhwe bwomundu. Hesbon: Khuloma khuli mung'anana. Sindani: Oloma oli khuchilenge eng'anana omukuka.
Hesbon: There it is. Sindani: Instead of saying we went for private talks.Hesbon: We say dowry agreement ceremony. Sindani: You say we went for dowry agreement ceremony elder.
Hesbon: Chiliyo chinyimbo chawele khakaba.
Hesbon: There songs for God the giver.
Sindani: Chiliyo chekhuminya.
Sindani: There are those for singing to the circumcision candidate.
Hesbon: Chiliyo cha wele.
Hesbon: There are those for God.
Chiliyo chinyimbo chakhuminya.
There are songs to sing for the circumcision candidate.
Nono.
So.
Wakhaba nolomakho oli, nenya khuche mubuterefu.
You were saying that, I want us to careful go to.
Umbolele chinyimbo cha khusomia.
You tell me the educating songs.
Chakhusomia chisomia balosi.
Those that teach old women.
Chisomia basikhasi.
That teaches women.
Chisomia besisecha nebana.
That teaches men and children.
Chinyimbo chekhusomia chino chibechanga nende mekesio sina kano?
What teachings do these educating songs have?
Sindani: omuka nga omundu klomanga ali.
Sindani: Elder, as a person said.
Nga chisimo chilomelinge chili bali nanda kambilwa.
The parables said, whoever doesn't listen.
Kakona khumwanda kwenjoli, lwenolu lulinga lusimo.
They slept on the elephant pathway, that is like a parable.
Nowicha lundi lulwimbo luliyo balomanga bali, bemba bali.
There is another song they sang this way.
Balabola nokhaulila nokhaulila nokhaulila, nebabola nokhaulila nikwo kubelekeu.
Singing: When they say and you don't listen, you don't listen, you don't listen, if the say and you don't listen that will being disrepectful.
Aba bali khabakhukambila ewewe nga omwana.
They will be advising you as a child.
Bali khabakhukambila ewe nga omukhasi.
They will advising you as a woman.
Bakhukambila ewewe nga omusakhulu.
They will advising you as an old man.
Wikhale nomanya oli, nebakamba.
You should live knowing when they advise.
Nebakeleka kenyekhana olonde.
When they instruct, you should follow.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Eeh.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: Eeh.
Hesbon: Ne lwimbo ngaa.
Hesbon: And a song like.
Khusolwa khukhusomesia luno tu.
Just the teaching one.
Naulilanga nebemba chinyimbo balii.
I heard they sang songs like.
Nono nga nilwo wakhemba nokha noino olwo.
Like the one who have sang.
Hesbon: Bali Both: Papa nemayi, nemayi, nemayi.
Hesbon: That. Both: Father and mother and mother.
Both: Papa nemayi niye etaa yefwe. Hesbon: Olwonwolu nono aba khabakambila ba? Both: Aba bali khabakambila babana.
Both: Father and mother are our light. Hesbon: Who will they be advising with that Both: They will be advising the children.
Hesbon: Nenono, omanye baliyo basakhulu balala.
Hesbon: You know there are some old men.
Batinyu sana.
They are very difficult.
Nono nga ewewe sayi.
Like you now.
Niyo wabelanga omwana, newenya khukambila omusakhulu mulwimbo onyala wamwimbila nga lwimbo lulala sina luno.
When you were young and wanted to advice an old man, what kind of song would you sing to him?
Sindani: Aluno ari busa efwe khuli nende emebelekeu, khuli nende inginyang'a.
Sindani: Elder, nowadays we are just disrespectful.
Khuli nende ekimocho.
We have pride.
Omukuka efwe sakhwaba nende engila yakhukambila omusakhulu ta.
Elder, we didn't have a way of advising an old man.
Yaba.
It was.
Omusakhulu ewewe nga omwana waba busa omundu orekeresia.
An old man was like a child just to listen.
Alinga omukhasi sakaba nende bise biekhukachula nomusecha bali bakwangwasiana ta.
It was like a woman who didn't have time to argue with the husband.
Bele omukhasi kaba busa nende kumulimo mulala khuli khwekhalilikha omusakhulu.
The woman only had one job to tolerate the husband.
Wekhalilikha omusakhulu, wekhalilikhe, wekhalilikhe omusecha woo.
You tolerate your husband.
Ewe nga omwana wekhalilikhe papa namwe mayi.
As a child you should tolerate father or mother.
Sekhwaba nende bise fwesi biekhwikhala khumesa ndala bali.
We didn't have time to seat on one table that.
Bali fwesi bali khulomaloma khuri.
For us to speak that.
Mayi ewe.
You mother.
Papa ewe.
You father.
Musakhulu ewe olangoselanga ori.
"Old man, you have been mistreating me this way"
Efwe nga babukusu sakhabwa nende.
We us Bukusus we didn't have the.
Bise bienebio namwe kamani kenako ta.
That time or that energy.
Enginyanga yicha luno.
This disrespect comes today.
Khualang'anya khuno khwicha luno, sakabao ta.
This disrespect comes today, it was not there.
Sindani: Orio omukuka. Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Sindani: Thank you elder. Hesbon: Very well.
Hesbon: Nono.
Hesbon: So.
Akenako kakhaba nekhuli khuchinyimbo chee.
That was about the songs for.
Kimienya kiakhusomia.
Educating songs.
Nono umbolelekho oli lundi kiliyo kimienya kiemwiye.
So you told me there were war songs.
Nikio khunyala khwemba nekhucha liye.
That we can sing while going for war.
Mala kimienya kino ata nani omwene yesi kakhwimbilanga.
And these songs, a certain person himself used to sing for us.
Bakina Elijah wa Nameme nebacha liye.
The likes of Elijah wa Nameme when they went for war.
Bakhwimbilanga kimimbo kino.
They used to sing these songs for us.
Ngorwa sayi nonyola waba nendee limanya liekumwenya yakhaba mulala.
I don't know if you may have knowledge of even one song.
Nikwo khunyala kwembelakho yakhaba baraka bano nio bamanya bali.
That we can sing for these youths for them to know that.
Kumwenya kuno kwarumikhanga kurikuri.
This song was used this way.
Sindani: Omukuka nga kuliyo nikwo Elija kalomanga ali, "ali mundolelele basoleli be kamayuba"
Sindani: There is the one Elijah was saying, "that get me active men"
Mundolele basoleli bekamani.
Get me stong men"
Ali balosi mutile kamabale nekamaumbu nekimikango khuche khupane nende omukoloni.
He said, "women should hold stones and cooking sticks for us to go and fight with the colonizer"
Khuche khupane nende omukoloni.
Singing: We go and fight with the colonizer.
Nono omukuka kimienya kiriokirio.
So elder such songs.
Kiawelesianga bandu kamani.
They gave people the energy.
Oba nekamani nelisubila likali nga lia Maji Maji.
You had so much energy and faith like that of Maji Maji.
Nono nocha ochila busa elala omukuka.
So when you go, you go all the way.
Hesbon: Mala kimisoleli kia Maji Maji ekio.
Hesbon: Those Maji Maji boys.
Hesbon: Omukuka kiaba nende lisubila. Sindani: Kiaba nelisubila.
Hesbon: Elder, they had faith. Sindani: They had faith.
Sindani: Kimienyia ekieko kiakhuwelesie busa kumoyo oli nekamani kamakali.
Sindani: Those songs gave you confidence and you have a lot of energy.
Hesbon: Omukhulu wakwo akubolela ali wase.
Hesbon: His leader would tell him that.
Ali ewe bora weakhe kamechi kano.
That provided to wipe yourself with this water.
Sindani: Naba khucha ebweni.
Sindani: We will go forward.
Hesbon: Omukoloni kakhecha busa nende.
Hesbon: Whether this colonizer comes with.
Kakhecha nendee endolio.
Even if he comes with the bomb.
Newe wakhila kamechi kano.
If you are protect yourself with the warer.
Hesbon: Kamechi kano kali. Sindani: Ne walekhile kamechi kano bakhapa ewe sofwa ta. Hesbon: Sofwa kamechi kano kemia busa endolio eyo sayingila mumubili mwoo ta aai.**
Hesbon: This water is. Sindani: You won't die whether they beat you because of this water. Hesbon: You won't, this water would stop the bomb to get in your body.
Hesbon: Kimisakhulu kino kiosi kiaba kimirafu nikio.
Hesbon: The old men were tough.
Lakini tawe nga nawakhaloma omusakhulu.
But as you have said elder.
Lulwimbo lwonolu lwawechanga bandu basoleli kamani.
That song gave the boys energy, that song was.
Lwe khunyindasia basoleli.
To make the boys strong.
Abwenao nakhusimile sana.
I appreciate you on that.
Nge wakhaba nowekesia baraka.
As you have taught the youths.
Che lulwimbo lwa liye lwonolu.
Of that war song.
Eeh khwichile khwalola luliyo lundi chinyimbo chaa.
We came and observed there are also songs for.
Chakhusakha ta?
For looking for food, right?
Sindani: Nechekhusakha chiliyo.
Sindani: The ones to look for food are there.
Hesbon: Eeh chakhufuna yaani. Sindani: Chakhufuna.
Hesbon: Those for harvesting. Sindani: Those for harvesting.
Sindani: Khulima.
Sindani: To farm.
Sindani: Chikhubolela chili khubiale. Hesbon: Eeh.
Sindani: Those that tell us to plant. Hesbon: Eeh.
Both: Bali omukhasi okhalima akila enjala yakhulia.
Both: "That a woman who doesn't farm makes hunger kill you"
Hesbon: Bali omuyila khumbako..nono chenecho chawechanga bakhasi kamani balime.
Hesbon: When you take to a farm, those used to give women energy to farm.
Hesbon: Ili.
So.
Bakhakhola bario omusecha kakhola ariena.
They should not do that for the husband to do what.
Bindu biarera kumutawano.
Things to cause separation.
Hesbon: Sikila enjala yaba mungo. Sindani: No omukuka omubukusu abele sindu nisio kasubila sikhulu.
Hesbon: It brings hunger at home. Sindani: Elder the thing that a Bukusu believed that was important.
Niisio akhoya katamba ta siaba siakhulia.
What they would not lack was food.
Hesbon: Kabisa.
Hesbon: True.
Sindani: Nono ewe noli nende omulosi woo nali omulosi okhakhola ekasi ta.
Sindani: So when you have your wife who doesn't work.
Ali khwamulanga khuli omwonoyu bali nafofoyo.
We called that one a lazy one.
Sakhola siosi ta.
She doesn't know anything.
Hesbon: Ooh nafofoyo omwenoyu omukhasi wa. Sindani: Alinga nono nakhali khasecha aba khasani sani.
Hesbon: Ooh a lazy woman is the wife of. Sindani: If it is a man, it should be the weak one.
Sindani: Khekhala busa ao khario.
Sindani: She just seats there.
Hesbon: Ekasi nga khulia busa nekhung'unya. Sindani: Khung'unya busa omukhasi nalung'unyo mbao nisio akhola ta.
Hesbon: Her work is to eat and gossip. Sindani: A gossing woman that does nothing.
Sindani: Wabone omukuka. Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Eeh kafwana kario.
Sindani: You see that elder. Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: It used to be that way.
Hesbon: Kuka abwenao nakhunyolile bulayi.
Hesbon: I have gotten you well on that.
Yee khusakha khuno.
Yes, looking for food issue.
Chinyimbo chino abele nekhuli chekhufuna chino baa.
These songs concerning harvesting.
Bakhasi babembanga namwe basecha namwe babana boosi.
Was it the women, the men or also the children?
Sindani: Likali.
Sindani: Mostly.
Bama khubechanga babana nende bandu besikhasi.
They were children and women.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbom: Very well.
Sindani: Khukhoye khube khumanye khuli mubabukusu omundu omusecha kaba omukeni.
Sindani: We should know that in Bukusu, a man was like a visitor.
Mbo omukeni wa Nasimiyu.
That Nasimiyu's visitor.
Wafula omwana omukeni wa Nasimiyu.
Wafula, Nasimiyu's visitor.
Buliyo busiro nibwo babukusu baba nebawelesia omundu wesisecha.
There is a responsibility that Bukusus had given to a man.
Sekaba bus omundu oyuyukhana ta.
He was not just a confused person.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Omusecha kaba nende bung'ali nebakhola ata akoloba ano salota nalolele busa munju ta.
A man had the habit of not going straight to the house when he came back in the evening.
Akoyanakho enje kareba mbo nechikhafu chino Simiyu niye olotisie.
He keeps himself busy outside and ask if it was Simiyu who brought he cows back.
Sachekure bulayi ta, chekure nekhali kenya busa bandu bamanye mbo omuruki mungo muno kakhola.
The cows may be full but he will just want people to know that the home ruler has arrived.
Hesbon: bulayi sana. Sindani: Nanu balimile ano ndomile nandi bareme.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: Who dug here, I said they should cut"
Sindani:Nanibo bacha khwaka eyi.
Sindani: " And they went to dig there"
Wabone omukuka.
You see elder.
Hesbon: Nakhunyolile. Sindani: Nono mbokesia nandi.
Hesbon: I get you. Sindani: So I am showing them that.
Sindani: Omundu omumasaba, omusecha sakaba omundu of ufuchikha fuchikha busa nekakhola mungo ta.
Sindani: A Mumasaba person, the husband was not someone to be looked down at when he arrived at home.
Hesbon: Eeh omusecha. Sindani: Nekakhola mungo bandu barurira enje, omwami kakhola.
Hesbon: Eeh the husband. Sindani: When he arrives at home people go outside to recognize his presence.
Hesbon: Naye kaba kumurwe.
Hesbon: He was the head.
Sindani: Kaba kumurwe, sabalinga aluno ari enywe mwama emalwa eyo mwawele lundi barera busa lundi basutile busa.
Sindani: He was the head not like you nowadays where you are brought back carried from the local alcohol joint.
Sindani: Barera busa munju wicha khukona, omwenoyu aba omwana.
They are just bring you home to sleep, is that a child.
Hesbon: Nono olalomanga oli.
Hesbon: So you are saying that.
Babandu bano.
These people.
Besikhasi nibo bembanga chinyombo chino.
The female ones are the ones who were singing these songs?
Bembela.
They sing for.
Both: Basisecha.
Both: For the men.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Hesbon: Abwenao nakhunyolile.
Hesbon: I have gotten you on that.
Nee.
And.
Sima ndi ndakhurebakho lundi liswali.
I appreciate that I will ask you a question.
Sindani: Khorebe busa omukuka. Hesbon: Nandi ndakhurebakho lirebo kidogo. Sindani: Orio kuka.
Sindani: Just ask elder. Hesbon: I want to ask you a brief question.
Hesbon: Nekhulinga khukesa kamaindi khuno.
Hesbon: If it is about harvesting maize.
Bakhasi.
Women.
Bakholanga busa kimilimo kikiana nende kiebasecha.
Were days doing the same duties as the men.
Namwe basecha bakholanga kimilimo tofauti, kimilimo kilikhoo.
Or men were doing different duties that had.
Both: Kikiaukhanekho nende kiebakhasi.
Both: That was different from those for women.
Sindani: Omukuka kumwaukhano kwabao kwe kimilimo kio omusecha nomukhasi.
Sindani: Elder, there was a difference between the men and women duties.
Sindani: Omusani bele osaula busa lusambu. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: As a man you were just to clear the field. Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Walima.
Sindani: You cultivate.
Norurayo,.
And leave.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Omukhasi akhake.
Sindani: A woman will cultivate.
Akhalime.
She will cultivate.
Abiale.
She will plant.
Kake, akese nebabana bewe.
Cultivate and harvest with her children.
Barere.
They bring.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Wesi nolimo nebabana basoleli nebakhakhula obekesia ori.
Sindani: When you have children who are boys growing, you should show them that way.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Kimilimo kie khukesa khukhola sinanu, kiaba kimilimo kio omukhasi, omukhaye nebabana.
Sindani: Issues to do with harvesting was the responsibility of the wife and the children.
Eeh omanye omukuka.
You know elder.
Khukhoya khureo bubwabukhani omukhasi nende omukhaye.
We should put a difference between a woman and a wife.
Kamakhuwa kali abwenao.
Issues are there.
Hesbon: Kamakhuwa kali abwenao kabili mala sakhwakamanyile ta.
Hesbon: There are two issues there that we don't know.
Sindani: Omukhasi ali busa yesiyesi onyala wangala khungila okhu obira busa aba omwenoyu aba omukhasi.
Sindani: A woman is anyone you can pick on the road passing.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Omukhasi asala busa.
Sindani: A woman is everywhere.
Omukhasi asalasalanga busa lakini omukhaye.
A woman could be allover the place but a wife?
Omukhaye ali omundu wesikhasi.
A wife is a lady.
Weyisia asi, ali neliria , onyala wamura munju mwewe.
Who is calm and respecful to settle her in her house.
Katekhela barende nebalebe kakhusia bafubi, omwenoyu omukhaye.
A wife has to cook for strangers, relatives and take care of orphans.
Sindani: Wabone omukuka omwenoyu omukhaye. Hesbon: Nakhunyolile bulayi. Sindani: Nono omundu naloma ata khwenyekhananga khulomenge khuli, oli nende? ndi nende omukhaye.
Sindani: You see that elder. Hesbon: I get you well. Sindani: So when asked, we should be saying I have a wife.
Sindani: Sendi nomukhasi ta, omukhasi, basala busa.
Sindani: I don't have a woman, women are everwhere.
Kinyala kiaba kinasambu kikendakenda busa muno kino.
They maybe the likes of Nasimbu who move around here with no purpose.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Kina sikoko omukhasi busa omwenoyu.
Sindani: Desperate mature unmarried women.
Omukhasi ata onyala wabukula.
You can even take a woman.
Onyala wabukula womundu lakini omukhaye aba owoo womunju.
You can even take someones, but a wife is one for your house.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Kewelesia liria nga omukhasi womundu kuka.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: She has respected herself as someone's wife elder.
Hesbon: Abwenao nakhunyolile.
Hesbon: I have gotten you on that.
Olomile oli chiliyo chinyimbo chaa.
You said there are songs for.
Hesbon: Bali olomile oli khulomanga khuli bukhwe khanee sakenyekhana khwaloma khuli bukhwe ta. Sindani: Omuka bukhwe buli atayi sokhoya wabulomakho ta.
Hesbon: You said we should not say private ceremony. Sindani: Elder, private ceremony is far we are not supposed to talk about it.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Oloma oli burie.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: You say marriage agreement.
Sindani: Oloma oli abenabo barie basie, omwenoyu mayi omurie. Hesbon: Bali baloma bali munana namwe?
Sindani: You say those are my in-laws, that is my mother in-law. Hesbon: You said who are they.
Sindani: Olomanga kamakhuwa kekhukhwa.
Sindani: You talk about dowry issues.
Hesbon: Eeh.
Hesbon: Eeh.
Sindani: Nekhucha khwikhala eyeyo.
Sindani: When we go to seat there.
Nakhwenya khuana kimiandu.
When we want to give the wealth.
Khuloma khuli khulikhokhola eng'anana.
We say we are doing a dowry agreement.
Sakhakhukhola bukhwe ta.
We are not doing a private ceremony.
Omwana woo omukhana ali khabeela bali khabakhuelesia kimiandu.
Your dughter is getting married and they are giving you the wealth.
Okhokhola bukhwe bwewe oriena.
How are you doing her private ceremony.
Khulukhokhula eng'anana.
We are doing a dowry agreement.
Bukhwe buli sindu sili atayi busa.
Private ceremony is something that is far.
Hesbon: Nono eng'anana yino yosi yabechanga nende kimienya kiayo ta?
Hesbon: So dowry agreement ceremony also had its own songs, right?
Sindani: Kimienya kiabechangao.
Sindani: Songs were there.
Hesbon: Kimienya kiabechagao.
Hesbon: Songs were there.
Onyala waakhebulilakho yakhaba mulala.
Can you remember even one.
Mala khwembakho kidogo.
And we sing a bit.
Sindani: Omukuka.
Sindani: Elder.
Sindani: Kimienya kino nga khumenya kimiko kino kiachile khwibilila nekhali okhoebwe sa omanye oli kimienya kino kiabao. Hesbon: Ee bino bindu bicha.
Sindani: As we live long we forget such songs but just know they were there. Hesbon: Yes things come.
Hesbon: Ooh bulayi, nono kiliyo kimienya nikio bembelanga.
Hesbon: Oh well, there are songs they were singing for.
Wesikhasi nende kiliyo kimienya nikio bembela wesisecha namwe kimienya kino kili busa kimienya kili nende buwambani.
A woman or a man or these songs were combined?
Sindani: Kimienya kino kiliyo.
Sindani: These songs are there.
Kilimo kumuakhano.
They are different.
Kiliyo kimienya kie babana basoleli, kiliyo kikindi kie babana bakhana.
There are songs for boys and songs for girls.
Lakini busa kiosi kili nende burume mumienya kienekio.
But they both have a message in them.
Sakili busa kiekhwesosia busa ta.
They are not just for fun.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Nono, nekhukhola khusiakamo tawe nenyile abele.
Before we reach the end, I wanted that.
Khulomile khuli khulinende kimienya kiekhuminya.
We said we have the songs for singing to the circumcison candidate.
Kiekhuminya kino ngorwa onyala wenosiakhomo.
I don't know if you can elaborate on these songs for the circumcision candadate.
Kili kiriena namwee.
How are they or.
Khwimbanga.
We sing.
Omanye khuniko khwimba nakhuyila omwana esitosi.
You know what we sing when we take the child to the river.
Sakhuli nikio khwimba nakhakhuminya omwana ta, sakili nikio khwimba nakhwama.
They are not the ones we when we are singing for the circumcision candidate or when we come from.
Ebukhochawe tawe.
Not to the maternal uncles.
Nono nenyile winosiekhomo kimienya kino.
So I wanted you to elaborate on these songs.
Omanye bandu bakali lelo sabamanyile tawe.
You know many people nowadays don't know.
Banyala bemba kimienya.
They can sing the songs.
Nekhane khabemba kikiabwe busa ata kikhaa.
They will just be singing their songs that don't.
Sindani: Orio omukuka.
Sindani: Thank you elder.
Sindani: Khenje namile esitosi.
Sindani: Let me go and begin from the river.
Omwana kolile esitosi.
The child has reached at the river.
Khwamurere khu, khwamurerire, kwamumanyule.
We would have stripped him naked.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Khulikhakhweoyaya khwicha.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: We shall be singing from the river song while coming.
Sindani: Mulwimbo lwenolwo oulilanga mbo omusinde oteremaka acha wae.
Sindani: From that song you hear that, whoever gets scared goes where?
Hesbon: Ebunyolo. Sindani: Acha ebunyolo.
Hesbon: To Luo land. Sindani: He goes the to Luo land.
Sindani: Wabone.
Sindani: You get it?
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.*Sindani: Khuli khakhuwelesia omwana yuno kamani.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: We are just giving this child energy.
Sindani: Anyindalile.
Sindani: For him to be confidence.
Keche bamukhebe.
To come and get circumcised.
Omusinde oteremaka acha ebunyolo, anyindalile beche bamukhebe.
A circumcision candidate who gets scared goes to the Luo land, he gains confidence to come and get circumcised.
Aya.
Okay.
Kumwenya kwonoku.
That song.
Kuli nende buwambani nende omukhebi niyo ali, amanya busa ali omwana kolile abundu fulani, omwana kolile abundu.
It has connection with where the circumciser is, he will know the child has arrived home.
Ebunyolo eyeyo niyo khuloma khuli omusinde oteremaka acha ebunyolo, ebunyolo eli wae.
Where is the Luo land where we say a scared circumcision candidate should go?
Omunyolo sakhumanyile niyo anyolekhana.
We know where a Luo is found?
Omunyolo.
A Luo.
Sindani: Nomunyolo yuno khuloma khuli omusila nyimba niye.
Sindani: This Luo person we say he is scared to use the circumcision bells.
Sindani: Sakengilanga ta. Hesbon: Omunyolo yuno ali omundu waria embalu.
Sindni: He doesn't get circumcised. Hesbon: A Luo person is the who is scared of getting circumcised.
Sindani: Karia embalu karira busa elala, kaalang'anya sakana ata kakaulilakho ta. Hesbon: Kamakhuwa kembalu ata wamubolela sakana kakaulilakho ta.
Sindani: He is so scared of circumcision, until he doesn't want to hear about it. Hesbon: He is so scared about circumcision to the point he doesn'want to hear about it.
Sindani: Nono. Hesbon: Sakana kakaulila ta.
Sindani: So. Hesbon: He doesn't want to hear about it.
Sindani: Bali oteremaka ata waena?
Sindani: Whoever gets scared goes where?
Sindani: Ebunyolo. Hesbon: Acha ebunyolo.
Sindani: In Luo land. Hesbon: He goes to Luo land.
Sindani: Nabwila khulaka omusinde khuli noteremaka ocha ebweneyi.
Sindani: That is why we promise a circumcision candidate to go there whever they get scared.
Bali Mango.
That Mango.
Hesbon: Mango Maalule.
Hesbon: Mango Maalule.
Both: Wakonile.
Both: He is a sleep.
Sindani: Khuli khakhusomia nono abwenao lundi.
Sindani: We are also teaching there.
Sindani: Papa wembalu omwene aba ali Mango.
Sindani: The father of circumcision is Mango.
Sindani: Nono khulikhakhukhebusiana busa khuli. Hesbon: Nono nenyile khukhurebakho lireba lilala abwenao. Sindani: Reba busa omukuka.
Sindani: We are reminding ourselves that. Hesbon: So, I wanted to ask you one question on that. Sindani: You can just ask elder.
Hesbon: Walomile oli Mango Maalule wakonile.
Hesbon: You have said Mango Maalule is a sleep.
Hesbon: Mala khumanyile khuli Mango yuno.
Hesbon: We know that this Mango.
Omukuka niye wafwa khale, nono khulwasayi.
An ancestor who died long ago, so at the moment.
Bise bieniebi.
During that time.
Hesbon: Mango Maalule yuno niye nanu? Sindani: Niye nanu?
Hesbon: Who is Mango Maalule? Sindani: Who is he?
Hesbon: Eeh nakhwamia omwana oyo.
Hesbon: When we take thatchild from.
Hesbon: Nekhwama omwana esitosi nono khubise bienebwo. Sindani: Mango yuno kakona khale.
Hesbon: During the time when we escort the child from the river. Sindani: Mango died long ago.
Hesbon: Mango yuno kakona khale. Sindani: Khulomile khuli omubukusu asubilanga babandu sabafwichanga ta baulukhanga.
Hesbon: This Mango died long ago. Sindani: We said a Bukusu does not believe people dies but they just rest.
Sindani: Wambulile omukuka.
Sindani: Do you hear me elder?
Hesbon: Nakhuulile.
Hesbon: I have heard you.
Sindani: Nono nga khulomile khuli Mango aba khulakhola khuriena, niyo ali.
Sindani: So when we said Mango, we will be saying that wherever he is.
Sindani: Namwe eli ekhoyo yefwe niyo.
Sindani: Or it is our joy.
Khuli mukhoyo.
We are in celebrations.
Khuli khwekhebusia mbo.
We are reminding ourselves that.
Niye wanjisia kumulukha kuno mala kwefwe nikwo mala khwakusimile.
He is the one who begun our traditon and we have embraced it.
Sindani: Nono khocha yuno, eli busa abundu embalu.
Sindani: So this one going is just circumcision somewhere.
Sindani: Owalula, Maalule kalindile.
Sindani: Who will circumcise, Maalule is waiting.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Wabone, wanyolile omukuka. Hesbon: Nakhunyolile.
Sindani: You get me elder. Hesbon: I get you elder.
Sindani: Aba khuli khumenako.
Sindani: We are on that.
Hesbon: Ee wakhaba khaunjinoselamo kamakhuwa ka lwimbo lwa. Both: Lwe sitosi.
Hesbon: You were explaining to me about the after the river song. Sindani: From the river. Sindani: From the river.
Sindani: Nono aba abwenao khuli khakhuwelesia omwana kamani. Hesbon: Nono olambolelanga oli khuli nende chinyimbo chesitosi.
Sindani: We will be giving the child confidence. Hesbon: So you are telling me that we have the songs to sing from the river.
Sindani: Khuli khakhwama esitosi khwicha mungo.
Sindani: We are coming from the river coming home.
Hesbon: Khuli nende chinyimbo chaa.
Hesbon: We have songs for.
Sindani: Nono kuka ndomile nandi namile waena?
Sindani: So elder I said I started from where?
Both: Esitosi.
Both: The river.
Sindani: Khwama khwichaa.
Sindani: We have come.
Sindani: Omanye sino silinga sinyasio.
Sindani: You know this is like punishment.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Khwarerire omwana khwamurere khuluya.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: We have brought the child to the circumcision area.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Bakhakalakasia.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: They have made rejoicing noise.
Sindani: Khwamalile bakalakasie, nakhanja khwimba khuli si?
Sindani: We have finished and they have made rejoicing noises, how do we start singing?
Both: Khwaela.
Both: We are relieved.
Sindani: Khuli khokhuulukha.
Sindani: We are relaxing.
Khwakendile muuno lakini nono. .
We have walked here but.
Bona omusani wemile chinyuni chafwile.
Look the man has stood and the birds have died.
Khwaela wase.
Mate, we are relieved.
Sindani: Wabone.
Sindani: You see.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Nono lundi abele nakhwila enyuma nono lundi.
Sindani: So if we go back again.
Sindani: Nono nio busie khuche. Both: Esitosi eyeyo.
SIndani: The day day before going. Both: To the river.
Hesbon: Khuli nendee.
Hesbon: We have.
Sindani: Khuli khwama ebukhocha, khulomanga khuli sinanu?
Sindani: What do we say coming from the maternal uncle?
Hesbon: Khuli khwama ebukhocha, ooh eeh. Sindani: Khocha omulayi khuli khwekhoyela, khocha abeleyo omulayi niye kakhuwelesie sindu khuli khokhwicha.
Hesbon: That, we are coming from the maternal uncle. Sindani: Maternal uncle is good, we are rejoicing because he gave us something to come with.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana. Sindani: Nakhukhechile nesisindu ta khulinende nga khwimba.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: When we have not come with something there is also a way we would sing.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Hesbon: Mmh.
Sindani: Sibui esio nakhakhucha eluchi lundi.
Sindani: That morning when we shall again going to the river.
Both: Khuli nende lwekhucha esitosi.
Both: We have the one to take to the river.
Sindani: Lundi khuli mungila ekindi khubolela bandu bamenyile nibo khwetikiyana abao khuli balebe efwe khwacha eluchi.
Sindani: In another way we will be informing our neighbours that we will be going to the river.
Khakhuyila yuno esitosi.
We are taking this one to the river.
Sindani: Ngakhwamayo. Hesbon: Mwiche mukhulolele kamakhuwa kano.
Sindani: When we come from there. Hesbon: You should come and observe this things for us.
Hesbon: Mwicha mukholele emwene. Sindani: Nocha khulanga.
Hesbon: You come and observe for us. Sindani: When you go to call.
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: Khulabolelanga omusinde khuli.
Hesbon: Mmh. Sindani: We are telling the circumcision candidate that.
Sindani: Khuli okhabona bwasia wekana.
Sindani: That he should not deny when tomorrow comes.
Sindani: Nanu okhurumire. Hesbon: Wamwene wenyile. Sindani: Soli wamwene wererekho, khuche.
Sindani: Who sent you. Hesbon: You decided yourself. Sindani: Are you not yourself who wanted it, let us go.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Nono chinyimbo chefwe che simasaba chino mumbalu ao chili nende buli sikila.
Sindani: So our songs from Masaba on circumcision have meaning every time.
Nisio lundi bele nenya khutasakho.
What I also wanted to add.
Ndasekhoo si.
I just add.
Simesu sikekhe siri.
A small part.
Nakhulolela.
When we look.
Nga khuminya.
As we sing to the circumcision candidate.
Khube nakhucha khulanga namwe nakhuli mungo nakhuminya nobusie khuche khukhebe.
Whether we go to call or when we are at home in order to circumcise the following day.
Hesbon: Bulayi sana.
Hesbon: Very well.
Sindani: Baliyo bandu muchingo chefwe muno.
Sindani: There are people in our homes.
Omundu kayibakho busa wakana ali nakukwima abinanga.
Maybe a person had a habit to run at night.
Hesbon: Kabisa.
Hesbon: True.
Sindani: Omundu wakana ali nekimima kiekhwerungarunga khubakhaye babene.
Sindani: Maybe a person has the habit of seducing other people's wives.
Hesbon: Akosi.
Hesbon: There it is.
Sindani: Wabone omukuka.
Sindani: You see that elder.
Hesbon: Nakhunyolile bulayi. Sindani: Bandu brio abele nibo khwimba.
Hesbon: I have gotten you well. Sindani: Those are the kind of people we would sing about.
Sindani: Oli Maurice ta.
Sindani: That not Maurice.
Maurice sabona omukhasi womundu kesenda.
Maurice doesn't move when he sees someone's wife.
Maurice wakhola orie, ewe Wambuli sina.
What is wrong with you Maurice, what is it Wambumuli.
Hesbon: Akosina.
Hesbon: There it is.
Sindani: Bali nanu Barasa undokanga si.
Sindani: Like Barasa, why do you bewitch me.
Hesbon: Okosina.
Hesbon: There its.
Sindani: Abone, nono kimienya kieneikio bele.
Sindani: You get it, so those songs.
Kikila omundu we kukwima kubi kuno aterema,aria.
They make a person with a bad habit to get scared.
Abona ali khane nachilila nekimima kino.
He will realize if he continues with the habit.
Sibala siosi bandu balanjebebeya.
The whole world people will keep off from me.
Hesbon: Eeh balakhwebebeya. Sindani: Nabele busa omubi.
Hesbon: They will keep off. Sindani: I have been a bad person.
Sindani: Nafwanile ndiena mubasinage nibo bemba busa nebaminya.
Sindani: How do I look among my colleagues where they sing about me as a song to the circumcision candidate.
Sindani: Naba aria, nakobola mungo aba omundu omukwalafu. Hesbon: Aria.
Sindani: He will become scared and come back home a changed person. Hesnon: He will be scared.
Sindani: Yesi akwa busa mubandu, kimienya kino aba siakia muyetile kamukolole.
Sindani: He will become better among others, will these songs have helped him.
Hesbon: Bulayi san. Sindani: Orio omukuka.
Hesbon: Very well. Sindani: Thank you elder.
Hesbon: Asandi, nono omusakhulu Sindani.
Hesbon: Thank you elder Sindani.
Nasimile sana khumekesio niko wakhaba nowekesia Bamasaba.
I appreciate so much for the teachings you have taught the Bamasaba.
Basibukusu nga nolomile oli Bamasaba khulimo babukusu nendee omukisu.
The Bukusus, as you said we have Bukusu and a Gisu.
Nono nasimile mbara baraka nende baraka besibukusu babele nebanyola kamakhuwa kano.
So I appreciate and believe the youths and Bukusu youths have understood this information.
Kaliyo kamakhuwa kaluswa.
There are matters concerning a curse.
Kenako bakamanyile.
That one they know.
Bakanyola.
They got it.
Kaliyo chisimo, kemekesio kenako nabanyola.
They got the teachings about parables.
Baliyo lisubila lie babukusu bakhaba nebamanya.
There was Bukusu belief, which they have known.
Eeh kamasina nende buli sindu bakhaba nebamanya.
They have known names and everything else.
Chinyimbo chosi bona wakhabenoseliamo.
You explained to them about the songs.
Khwabakachulisia.
We have talked to them.
Khwasimile.
We appreciate.
Nekhola khusiakamo sie kamakhuwa kano ta sima ndii.
And before I get to the end of this conversation, I would wish that.
Onyala walomakho kamakhuwa lilala kabili mala obabolele baele.
Can you say or two words and tell the youths.
Ili nakhwama ano.
So that when we leave from this place.
Babe nebanyolilekho kamakhuwa kenganga.
They will have gotten valuable informtion.
Kanyala kaba nekabayeta.
That could help them.
Sindani: Orio muno omukuka khungoboselia lundi ekhombi yino.
Sindani: Thank you elder for giving me another opportunity.
Eeh omukuka khwama khusomia kamakali.
Elder, we have taught a lot.
Khwama khusomia.
We have taught.
Kimienya.
Songs.
Kimima, lisubila liefwe nga lie babukusu.
Character and our Bukusu belief.
Mala noli busa omundu wemoni engesi wabone oli ta.
If you are a clever person, you will know that.
Bana babukusu khwakhamenya.
Bukusu children as we live.
Kamaandalafu nende kamatinyu niko khulabirangamo kano.
The challenges we are going through.
Kamanana nende kimima kiefwe.
It comes from our behavour.
Mala sakali bali sina ta, kamakhuwa kano khukalomanga sikila khukamanyile.
It is not something else, we say these things because we know them.
Nekhali khwalekelesia.
It is just that we ignore.
Bali nono khubela.
Because.
Chidini nekamasomo biecha.
Religion and education came.
Khwalekelesie kimima kiefwe.
We have ignored our traditions.
Kimilukha kiefwe.
Our rituals.
Kimisango kiefwe.
Our sacrifices.
Kimisambwa kiefwe.
Our rites.
Khwebilile.
We have forgotten.
Nono nakhasabile nandi babana bamasaba, bakhangarani befwe.
I would have wished that our Bamasaba children and politicians.
Befwe, basomi balimo.
Educated ones among them.
Mubusie kamakesi kenywe akako alala.
Bring your brain together.
Mala mwiche niyo khuli.
And come where we are.
Khwayilisie bulayi.
We research well.
Nyinga niyo nyinga efula elikwa nekamakhonge kamela.
There is a day the it will rain and the indigenous trees will grow.
Khung'one sindu khulie namwe omukuka.
We prepare something and eat or what elder.
Hesbon: Orio wechile bulayi nga nawakhabola.
Thank you, you have spoken well.
Mubutiti bwefwe nende liambana.
With our challenges and unity.
Hesbon: Khube sindu silala mala khulole.
Hesbon: We become one thing and see.
Likumba nilio bakuka bakhulekhela.
The bone that the ancestors left for us.
Khukabane.
We share.
Nekhwakabana likumba lino mungila endayi.
When we have shared this bone in a good way.
Liolile buli mundu.
It has reached to everyone.
Ndi nende lisubila mbo buruki buno nibwo khulanjanga buno..
I have faith that this leadership we are looking for.
Khwatimile chisuku chingali.
We have tried several times.
Khwang'anga'ane.
We have struggled.
Khwarusisie lukesi.
We have sweated.
Mbara ndi.
I think that.
Khulabunyola.
We shall get it.
Ne esese mbukula bise khukobosela wele khakaba.
And I take this opportunity to thank God the giver.
Luyali lubofu.
Much appreciation.
Khubise nibio akhuwele.
For the time He has given us.
Khwekhale khwapile embakha khwasomisiane.
We have sat, had a conversation and taught each other.
Khumakhuwa kesibukusu.
On Bukusu matters.
Kamakhuwa kesimachamacha siefwe.
Matters from our beginning.
Nee.
And.
Sekhuli khumani kefwe ta.
It is not our wish.
Kali kamani kawele.
It is God's wish.
Nee.
And.
Mbukula wakati yino.
I take this opportunity.
Khubakobosela basakhulu.
To request the elders.
Nemukachule.
When you talk.
Nemupile embakha yino.
Whe you have a conversation.
Mwasomesie babana befwe bamanyile.
You have taught our children, they have known.
Sayi mbo lilio likhuwa lititi.
Now if there is a small matter.
Lilaba khuba nalilikhaliendelea mwirambo muno.
That will be going on in this country.
Bamanyile.
They know.
Nee khumakhuwa kano kosi.
And on all these matters.
Nekhabukula ekhombi yino.
Before I end.
Naba nengobosela obele nakhaa endelea nayo.
I give the opportunity to whoever is supposed to proceed with it.
Mbola nandi.
I say that.
Murio muno.
Thanks a lot.
Murio lundi sana khurera kamakhuwa ka sibukusu sino.
Thanks a lot again for bringing Bukusu matters.
Khukhwekesia basoleli befwe bamanye.
To teach our boys to know.
Nende buli sindu.
And everything.
Asandi sana.
Thanks alot.
Mala wele abawe kanamani.
And God should give you the strenght.
Orio.
Thank you.